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astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:33 am

braincell wrote:...As I understand it, Ralf is just punching in numbers to a computer. Why can't it be done via software online? Where is the "My Page"? I can't get my allkeys anymore. I have to beg Ralf for them. ....

what a rubbish
it's a textfile you can store anywhere you like, in your camera, on a mobile phone, an USB Stick, an optical drive and of course you can print it out to type it in next time you need it...

it is correct that Creamware was only a minor player due to their sophisticated copy protection

people like to 'borrow' and forget about the payment, in particular related to 'virtual' goods and even more particular in association with the Windows OS.
Yes Braincell, when I was in Mac sales about 30% of our customers aquired (even non protected) standard software. PC collegues only shook their heads in disbelief, admitting a 3% rate at best.
It doesn't matter one single bit if you are the only honest one among a thousand users. It's a statistical matter of fact. Period.

Without copyprotection Creamware would have been wider known, surely - but then they wouldn't have survived a single year.
It really is that simple.
I've met quite a number of protection schemes, but only a handful qualified as solid - most of the other stuff could be removed in less than half an hour - may not apply today as it's been a (long) while...

Anyway - TC Electronics ?
you're certainly aware that this is a company who developed all their technology as external 19" gear, and re-market the same product (algorithm) in several different versions.
You certainly waiting on their EQ processors from 5-9k Euro, the level maximizer for 3.5k, Mastering and Reverb 6000 for a humble 11k Euro each...
Or are you going to complain that those are too expensive ?

cheers, Tom

ps: it cannot be done online for the simple fact that a smart a** just records the data traffic and analyses it.

winger · Post by **winger** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:21 am

I agree with most of what you said, exept your PS.
"ps: it cannot be done online for the simple fact that a smart a** just records the data traffic and analyses it. "

The fact they have such a strong security system is the reason they should be able to use the internet.

I could post all my registration keys along with the devices I have bought in a pulbic place for all to see, but they would be no good to anyone else unless there scopce/pulsar card have the same serial number.

I think a more responsive, automated online way handling registration keys would go along way to improving customer satisfaction.

Fede · Post by **Fede** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:03 pm

winger wrote:I could post all my registration keys along with the devices I have bought in a pulbic place for all to see, but they would be no good to anyone else unless there scopce/pulsar card have the same serial number.

I think a more responsive, automated online way handling registration keys would go along way to improving customer satisfaction.

Codes (Hamming?) and algorithms have "patterns", they must have unique combinations to work with your serial number and not another one, once you have some examples you could retrieve the schema...

...the best security is still human work

cheers
Fede

pollux · Post by **pollux** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:25 pm

astroman wrote: ps: it cannot be done online for the simple fact that a smart a** just records the data traffic and analyses it.

Not if the website is secured properly.. HTTPS is far enough

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:23 pm

pollux wrote:...Not if the website is secured properly.. HTTPS is far enough

if I'm not completely wrong only recently a security issue was reported that https is not very robust regarding the infamous 'man in the middle' approch - the specific message related to a high number of servers.

but what's the problem anyway ?
for several months someone considers to buy a plugin, then he asks a dozen question about it on different forums and then he finally makes up his mind to really do it...
and then he needs it within one hour, over night or is smart enough to order it Friday night, so he can complain that he has to wait over the weekend... LOL

how often do you buy plugins anyway ?
how many of the readers (here) do buy plugins at all ?
so what is this ? yet another storm in a tea cup ?

cheers, Tom

HUROLURA · Post by **HUROLURA** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:44 pm

astroman wrote:
how often do you buy plugins anyway ?
how many of the readers (here) do buy plugins at all ?
so what is this ? yet another storm in a tea cup ?

cheers, Tom

On my side and after reminding a bit (another storm in the cup of tea of my own mind), I do buy the plugs most often bundles with the units/boards.
Only exception so far where Pro-12 for NOAH and Flexor ...

But I am still considering buying some extra plugs (from SpaceF, Adern or Zarg Music especially). And I do not use any VSTi as I found enough plugs on scope systems or as old used hardware units controlled by my (also old) Emagic SoundDiver Software.

My 2 cents.

CheerZ

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:24 pm

There are always alternatives to the way things are done. Why do so many people keep insisting that they do things the only possible way they can do it? I'm not buying that sorry.

My other point is that the possibility of hacking should never be an excuse to cripple functionality for law abiding customers. The process of key transfers should be as easy and seamless to customers as possible. If this means taking a hit then so be it. The priority should be customer satisfaction not security.

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:30 pm

it is true i am a bit nostalgic about the mypage area

... but I never had any problems or delays when buying or transfering plugins except the fact it takes 1 day to remove and transfer the plugins. If it is the price to pay to avoid cracks that's ok for me ...

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:49 pm

It's not alright with me. I am using two computers with 2 sets of Creamware and Scope cards. I want to transfer modules at will as I can with the syncrosoft dongle. I can't do this without paying them and waiting. This is totally not acceptable. The Chinese cracked their stupid DRM anyway so why must we continue to suffer? I contend it's not even on their radar since everyone is so against complaining about anything . It's like a cult or something. You spend 5 or 10,000 USD on hardware and software, you deserve more respect than that. That is all I am saying. They treat ordinary customers as criminals; for instance if you have two computers, they assume you are using both of them at the same time thus you should pay double. I hate this mentality! I have two computers but only use one at a time. They have to trust me on this because otherwise, I may not be a very loyal or vocally supportive person for them.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:19 am

braincell wrote:It's not alright with me. I am using two computers with 2 sets of Creamware and Scope cards. I want to transfer modules at will as I can with the syncrosoft dongle.

Same old record playing the same old tune, you're getting onerous now in your repetition.

braincell wrote: They have to trust me on this because otherwise, I may not be a very loyal or vocally supportive person for them.

You are kidding right. i have yet to see you be a loyal or supportive customer of this platform, ever.

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:27 am

braincell wrote:The process of key transfers should be as easy and seamless to customers as possible. If this means taking a hit then so be it. The priority should be customer satisfaction not security.

the "process of key transfers" was never intended to be a feature and was also not offered as such. they made it possible on demand later, and they made it their way.
that's a fact. it's no procedure to burst into hoorays about, no doubt.
but I can hardly believe you to be a satisfied customer, knowing that most people can use for free what you paid for, just because protection was made easy and not secure. I for one prefer the more secure way, but maybe that is just me...

-greetings, markus-

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:47 am

braincell wrote:It's not alright with me. I am using two computers with 2 sets of Creamware and Scope cards.

they issue licenses to a specific piece of hardware. if you want to run plugin x on two separate cards not being in the same computer you have to have two licenses. you can't blame them for you not being aware of that. they never stated you can buy a single license for use with any card you own. they always stated the license is bound to a specific card. why complaining afterwards?
"oh I did not read some legal BS, and now I just blame others for that." ??

They have to trust me on this because otherwise, I may not be a very loyal or vocally supportive person for them.

"do what I say or I will spread bad news about you" could be interpreted as you probably intend to blackmail someone, doesn't it?
you don't expect honestly the fulfillment of your wishes straight away, do you?

-greetings, markus-

ps. again, I'm not totally fond of the key system, but I can live with it the way it is, since I don't feel the need to transfer keys every now and then. I have 8 cards, btw.
about the chinese... they did not have to crack anything. mr. hund, one of the creamware founders, has the same rights on the scope platform technology as SC. that includes the key protection scheme. they are simply allowed to generate keys on their own. that's it.

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:11 am

Braincell, you can call windows and all the softare companies in the world that sell licences for one computer and complain about that.... That's totally normal !!!

Soniccore has been asking for a fair fee that allows a customer to keep his licences when selling a board. I have done this several times (from my first elektra to my scope boards) and i have never complained about that. Just check elsewhere ... just ask TC or UAD if you want to transfer a Sonnox or system 600 reverb ... I am deeply conveinced they will ask you some money...

You should defintly keep your scope boards or sell it (before xite release

. why don't you add some TC powercore + good plugins ? that's a great gear too and very simple. Let say, Soniccore is not aiming at you. I have personnally sold my UAD (expert) and dropped the idea of getting a TC powercore rack because I would spend a lot of mony for power + (good) plugins but without synth, flexibility, converters and perfect mobility. Just check and compare Soniccore/3rd party plugins with that of UAD or TC and you will see that many scope plugins sound as good as the big ones. My brainworx EQ is just far cheaper than a Sonnox ...and my DAS reverb is a killer at a bargain price.... Soooooooo, why complaining about a 55 euros fee when all the plugins remain a lot cheaper than that of the competitors.

Well, that's of course my opinion... I have not found in 2008 a good competitor to the Xite... Like there was no real competitors for the 14 dsp boards (price / tools). But of course, many musicians can find many products according to their needs ... And it is not always necessary to pay a lot to make good music. Soniccore is just a company trying to developp NEW products... If it is time to upgrade your studio (that's my current situation), then you must compare and chose...

Post by **garyb** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:24 am

braincell a correction, "the chinese" did NOT break the Scope protection. Frank Hund already had access.

i'm not against you getting what you want, braincell. if you don't, i'm ok, still. i don't see a big problem. the scheme is cumbersome, but functional for me. i canunderstand what you like about having the protection on a dongle so that you can use your plugins on all of your machines. that's a nice idea. perhaps it will be considered, perhaps not. either way, it's not a reason to trash the company. save the harshest rhetoric for real injury.

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:32 am

Yes Gary...

And dongles are not always perfect too. I have an ilok + 1 codemeter and I can tell you that travelling with an ilok (codemeter are smaller

thank you Magix !) is a bit frightening ... Although it is hard to lose

this piece of hardware can be broken easily ... And ilok / codemeter cracks are easily available sooooo.... That does not seem very safe either... You can see this problem is hard to cope with ...

FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:47 am

Maybe with Xite you can get two PCI-E cards and switch between computers with your Xite box! Xite would be your dongle

I would like to see SC be more open about development they are doing. As for the customers, well, I havent had any real troubles yet so no negative experiences from me.

I think it would be a huge step forward if SC is more open to third party developpers, and implements new features which makes future development easier!

I also think its worth mentioning that with SC efforst to protect their platform, they are also protecting our third-party developpers. Which is a very good thing for me. However if there can be more openness I am all for it......

Post by **garyb** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:17 am

bill3107 wrote:Yes Gary...

And dongles are not always perfect too. I have an ilok + 1 codemeter and I can tell you that travelling with an ilok (codemeter are smaller thank you Magix !) is a bit frightening ... Although it is hard to lose this piece of hardware can be broken easily ... And ilok / codemeter cracks are easily available sooooo.... That does not seem very safe either... You can see this problem is hard to cope with ...

certainly.
as i said, i can easily live with the present system.

Post by **garyb** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:20 am

FrancisHarmany wrote:Maybe with Xite you can get two PCI-E cards and switch between computers with your Xite box! Xite would be your dongle

this would work just fine. it doesn't solve the brain's problem....

i think that that's part of the idea with the cardbus connector, that the unit would work in the home or studio pc as well as your laptop. 2 pcs would be just as easy.

okantah · Post by **okantah** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:09 am

braincell
i would say you better contact s/c for your inspirations on how to arrange their products,they are in position to give you best answers,
you are too consistence on that issue.
(lexicon pcm 96)=3843 euros just a stereo reverb/effect?
xite1 what it is ? just too cheap

Fluxpod · Post by **Fluxpod** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:24 pm

braincell wrote:It's not alright with me. I am using two computers with 2 sets of Creamware and Scope cards. I want to transfer modules at will as I can with the syncrosoft dongle. I can't do this without paying them and waiting. This is totally not acceptable. The Chinese cracked their stupid DRM anyway so why must we continue to suffer? I contend it's not even on their radar since everyone is so against complaining about anything . It's like a cult or something. You spend 5 or 10,000 USD on hardware and software, you deserve more respect than that. That is all I am saying. They treat ordinary customers as criminals; for instance if you have two computers, they assume you are using both of them at the same time thus you should pay double. I hate this mentality! I have two computers but only use one at a time. They have to trust me on this because otherwise, I may not be a very loyal or vocally supportive person for them.

Ever bought Waves plugins? Well, do it..then we talk again about what can be a pain in the ass.

Oh and you cant transfer single plugs on uad cards at all....go figure.
I could go on but i think you may get the point.