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hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:43 am

stardust wrote: Therefore I can understand that there is the high end Xite first to set the limits

when I talked to the SC @messe, I was told the current system is scalable in every direction. Even upwards.

They current Scope Pro is 1700€, I`m pretty sure it will fall in price after the release of the XITE-1, because nobody will pay ~2000 for 1xpower if he can buy 10xPower for 3000€.

@braincell:
So if the xite-1 is too expensiveand too overpowered, go buy a scope pro

Lets wait what the future brings.

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:34 pm

again, a powercore will cost almost 2000 euros for a few very good plugins so I do not think the price in unreasonable. Let's say that's a very good idea for mixing your projects. But as soon as you need synth, effects, emulations with a "zero" latency ... and a lot of power plus good converters / in/outs...then X-ite seems unbeatable in 2008, really. I have been seeking for a cheaper option, but I cannot find it. No competitors .... If you sum up plugins + power+ mobile possibilities (flexibility)... then you cannot find better, IMHO...

As a guitarist, I can play "live" with the scope / 3rd party effects without any latency AND I can run a whole projects without additional stuff. That's just amazing to me ... I am just missing power right now (I havz sold my big pci boards

) that's why X-ite is very tempting to me

....

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:16 am

Do people who buy the Xite-1 have to pay $50 and wait for Ralf to transfer their keys and hope he doesn't make a mistake?

Will it still say "import succeed"?

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:45 am

well, there is no exact information on that yet.
all we heard is "it will be possible", but unless there is no written information on how it will be done, and whether there's a fee or not, it's all pure speculation.
we probably do ourselves a favour to wait for that information and complain afterwards if it's not convenient

-greetings, markus-

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:53 am

That was sort of a joke. It would be ironic to buy an xite for thousands of dollars and then they demand more. They should overhaul the DRM system. It was poorly designed.

I actually have modules I want to transfer back and forth on a regular basis now but that is not possible. My downstairs studio is on another computer.

I know they don't want or accept user feedback though but this is off topic.

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:49 am

braincell wrote:That was sort of a joke. It would be ironic to buy an xite for thousands of dollars and then they demand more.

they will demand what they think it's worth. everybody is free to go with it or not. I'm not happy with transfer fees either, but that's the way they do it. as well as others.

They should overhaul the DRM system. It was poorly designed.

it was designed to protect their work. would you say it failed on that matter?

I actually have modules I want to transfer back and forth on a regular basis now but that is not possible. My downstairs studio is on another computer.

transferring licenses back and forth is no real option on other hardware bound plugins too, so what's the difference? the native way is more flexible here, of course, but this is a different approach. I think we discussed that already in the offtopic area...

I know they don't want or accept user feedback though but this is off topic.

this is ridiculous, and you already know that you're wrong. they might not have an ear for people who don't do anything but complaining and telling them what they're obliged to do, yes.
"poorly designed this, crappy that..." is not contructive, while demanding a z-link integration (and being heard) is.

-greetings, markus-

Tau · Post by **Tau** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:06 pm

kylie wrote: they might not have an ear for people who don't do anything but complaining and telling them what they're obliged to do, yes.
"poorly designed this, crappy that..." is not contructive, while demanding a z-link integration (and being heard) is.

Agreed. That was a sure sign that they do listen, and are trying to make a product that meets our expectations.

Expensive? Maybe, but then again, that's a matter of perspective. Way too many things are too expensive for me. I just hope the XITE works, so I can get me one and play away!

T

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:21 pm

a good big xite is gonna be a blast ! "When" is the question (not "if").
it will be cool to have mics and Hiz onboard for preamps / amps models, and possibly very low noise levels.
Why braincell says that A16 won't work on Xite ? A16 is just ADAT, it will work (unless i misunderstood something)....

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:04 pm

The transfer fee sounded fair to me ; I have done several transfers in my Creamware life

and developpers must be paid for their job. Although it was a bit boring to do it, this sytem seems more reliable than any ilok/codemeter protection right ? So, that was clever, period.

High end stuff is aways quite expensive and is just aiming at a certain target. How much are you ready to pay for a good comp or preamp ? Damn, the Xite will offer a great power, mobility, flexibility, synth, FX, converters ... This "all-in-one" box is not as exepnsive as it seems. You only have to pay the whole bill in one go ...

I have upgraded my Scope system according to my budget and I hope I will be able to buy an Xite if it. I never said a scope pro was too expensive because it was not in my budget. Thanks to the second hand market I have uprgarded my system several times. It is up to every musician to evaluate his needs + budget and spend what is necessary. Obviously, the Xite is aiming at project studio and above...

And Braincell, please, check what it would cost if you buy a uad or powercore system (you cannot reach the Xite power though...) + software synth (only few are available on other dsp systems !) + good converters + dual channel preamp !!!! ....

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:07 am

If TC Electronic is the competition, as so many of you suggest, then SC is failing miserably. For some reason Sonic Core cards are not widely available. All large music stores online or off carry TC Electronic products, not so for Sonic Core/Creamware. Let's do a little Google research:

Results 1 - 10 of about 898,000 for Sonic Core

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,920,000 for TC Electronic

Gee, I wonder why everyone in the world doesn't know that Sonic Core cards are a better value. Is it because Sonic Core wants their cards to be a secret? Even though they have a great price and a brilliant marketing department, nobody wants these products!

Atom says Xite-1 is exactly what the market needs. Now I am going to sit back, wait a year and see what happens. Since you are so good at predicting trends in music gear, let's see if you are right about the Xite-1.

Who was it who said that bankruptcy is different in Germany and it doesn't mean that Creamware is in trouble? Nobody wants to face reality.

Company Profile
TC Electronic was founded in 1976 with the objective of developing, manufacturing and marketing first class audio products that provide lasting user value for audio professionals and musicians.

Based in Risskov, Denmark, TC sell their products through a dedicated sales force in Europe, and through sales subsidiaries located in Los Angeles (for the North American markets), Beijing (China), and Tokyo (Japan). Independent distributors cover other markets. Currently TC employs close to 185 people worldwide working in 15 different countries.

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:22 am

Because it began PC only, not MAC, and it worked better on PC than MAC until Noah (which i tested on macs and people were happy with it, except when i took my noah back

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:56 am

Let's do a little Google research:

Results 1 - 10 of about 898,000 for Sonic Core

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,920,000 for TC Electronic

Gee, I wonder why everyone in the world doesn't know that Sonic Core cards are a better value. Is it because Sonic Core wants their cards to be a secret? Even though they have a great price and a brilliant marketing department, nobody wants these products!

a search on soundblaster gives you 13 600 000 hits, terratec gives you 11 800 000, behringer gives you 15 200 000. And as you state, TC electronic has been around since 1976 as you write, how long has soniccore sold products?

Nobody ever said creamware was marketing gurus either.

Who was it who said that bankruptcy is different in Germany and it doesn't mean that Creamware is in trouble?

I dont know (and i really dont care), but i do know that someone discussed the posted letter about insolvency, and someone said that neccecarily was the same as being bankrupt. But i dont see the relevance.

Nobody wants to face reality.

But some obviously have the urge to construct a reality for a product that isn't even released, based on the fact that HE doesnt need it.

pollux · Post by **pollux** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:15 am

braincell wrote:If TC Electronic is the competition, as so many of you suggest, then SC is failing miserably. For some reason Sonic Core cards are not widely available. All large music stores online or off carry TC Electronic products, not so for Sonic Core/Creamware. Let's do a little Google research:

Results 1 - 10 of about 898,000 for Sonic Core

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,920,000 for TC Electronic

Gee, I wonder why everyone in the world doesn't know that Sonic Core cards are a better value. Is it because Sonic Core wants their cards to be a secret? Even though they have a great price and a brilliant marketing department, nobody wants these products!

Atom says Xite-1 is exactly what the market needs. Now I am going to sit back, wait a year and see what happens. Since you are so good at predicting trends in music gear, let's see if you are right about the Xite-1.

Who was it who said that bankruptcy is different in Germany and it doesn't mean that Creamware is in trouble? Nobody wants to face reality.

Company Profile
TC Electronic was founded in 1976 with the objective of developing, manufacturing and marketing first class audio products that provide lasting user value for audio professionals and musicians.

Based in Risskov, Denmark, TC sell their products through a dedicated sales force in Europe, and through sales subsidiaries located in Los Angeles (for the North American markets), Beijing (China), and Tokyo (Japan). Independent distributors cover other markets. Currently TC employs close to 185 people worldwide working in 15 different countries.

Then get a TC Electronics card and go trolling their forums instead

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:38 am

Why should I do that when I like the cards? That doesn't make any sense. Get rid of the cards I like and buy other cards instead? The fact that they are overpriced and the company seems to have no business sense doesn't matter because I already bought them. It only means I won't be buying any more.

The bad DRM is an annoyance, it is merely indicative of the fact that they don't care about customer satisfaction. If transferring the keys was a problem, the answer should not be to charge for transfers in order to maybe persuade people not to do this. That is absurd. If it is too complicated to transfer the keys, perhaps they should have considered this when they designed the DRM and bug fixes are expected on expensive products at least for some period and especially with currently sold software.

I am sick and tired of goody two shoe brown nosers who think that only positive feedback should be posted.

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:02 am

Braincell, TC makes good stuff (although I know people complaining about some new Konnekt stuff) and it seems you know them very well... almost as much as you were part of the staff

Just kidding ... You are right scope hardware has always been quite expensive but as there is no real competitors, it is hard to compare Scope with anything else, really ... Again, just add all the TC stuff you would need to reach all what scope gives and then compare it. When I bought my "plus" boards it was damn hard to find soundboards with an aes-ebu digital interface, flexible rooting system and so many plugins ...

In 2008, I have not found a better choice (for me at least) when it comes to power + interface + official plugins (official must be stressed as crack users forget the plugin costs

). Of course 1500/1800 euros for a brand new scope pro is not a good price in 2008 (i would not pay that price) but the Soniccore hardware and philosophy has always been up to date. Amazingly, the X-ite will probably the only "beast" of the year, gathering so much features with a strong software (now almost perfect !!!!).

Again, that's my opinion and I know we cannot share the same ideas. When I recently bought my P11A Adam monitors, I have met 3 persons hating them and 7 loving them.... The same for Sequoia/Samplitude ... and the same for Soniccore ....

Jo

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:04 am

for transfer problem : don't you understand that a board 1 getting rid of its plugins to a board 2 can still run the plugins if you keep the allkey file !!!!! That's why it is fair to ask some money for developpement....period.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:08 am

Oh really? then why was it originally free?

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:40 am

Oh really? then why was it originally free?

Since you seem to have a master in buisniss i guess you know that as the ideal curve for the sale of a product gets lower you cant afford to "give away" working hours. You need to get paid somehow, especially for a small organization like SC.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:43 am

Automate the system as other companies do it. As I understand it, Ralf is just punching in numbers to a computer. Why can't it be done via software online? Where is the "My Page"? I can't get my allkeys anymore. I have to beg Ralf for them. None of this benefits customers, it only harms them. Like I have said before, if they can't do DRM right, then they should not use DRM period.

Bill, I don't know your monitors but they are probably better than my Events. Anyway I have bad reverb, no foam and no stands with acoustic sand.

Yes SC is expensive but they are not as expensive as pro tools or apogee but the niche seems somewhere between low and high end. Studios don't worry about synthesizers so maybe the problem is that musicians are too poor. It's hard to tell where the failure is. It's also a matter of luck and teaming up with the right people.

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:52 am

braincell wrote:Why should I do that when I like the cards? That doesn't make any sense.

true.

The bad DRM is an annoyance, it is merely indicative of the fact that they don't care about customer satisfaction.

no DRM is designed to increase customer satisfaction. if all manufacturers concentrated on customer satisfaction when thinking about DRM and software protection,
the only true answer would be not to implement it. you may agree that this is not really the way to go.