SCOPE XITE-1: new DSP hardware from Sonic Core!

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:32 am

BingoTheClowno wrote:As an hobbyist I don't see myself buying new hardware, especially at that price, especially after spending a lot on what I already have.
I don't understand whom is SC targeting with the new product?

uh.... there also exist people who are not hobbyists? Or maybe hobbyists with more money?
I don't see what's so hard to understand. Who do you think is buying all those super expensive outboard processors? Big analog mixers? ProTools systems? It's quite easy to find guitars, piano's or violins for the kind of price asked for Xite 1. Obviously there's a market for higher end (and hence higher priced) gear. From pro studios to pro musicians to rich hobbyists

I don't get why all the people who are clearly not the target audience for this product keep bitching about the price of it.

FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:47 am

BingoTheClowno wrote:As an hobbyist I don't see myself buying new hardware, especially at that price, especially after spending a lot on what I already have.
I don't understand whom is SC targeting with the new product?

People like me who are looking at maxed out DSP meter and PCI errors

johnbowen · Post by **johnbowen** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:06 am

<~Shroomz~> wrote:
Shayne White wrote:However, standalone support for Xite will be impossible and should NOT be attempted! CreamWare already tried that trick with Noah, and it was a disaster. The problem was that the plugins had to be rewritten from the ground up to transfer all Async modules to Sync in order to run them without a host computer.
No big deal. If some things need rewritten, no problem, but I don't think that's the case. I think the whole I/O structure & certain inards of Noah are within reach if we dig deep enough. Also, who said Noah was a disaster? Was that the same guy that 'made it so'?

Shayne is correct! All of the host-based code (scripts, etc.) would need to be rewritten (and some of it has been already for Noah, obviously), but then any existing devices would need to have all such modules replaced individually by hand - there was no automated process to do this. There also were some other issues (like for the parameter list, you have to flag all things as Noah objects, and preset list problems, and effects routing). When I was looking to have some of my things put into Noah, i couldn't even get Frank to let me try, because this process apparently was too daunting...he had hired a guy just to do the conversions for the Noah devices, and this he did by going through each item in the Project Explorer and replace it with a Noah object, re-doing all the connections to pads, etc. Also, any of those converters that appear automatically when you connect async to sync, etc, had to be replaced. At least for devices like mine, it would have been a huge amount of time...but could be eventually done. Of course, my stuff is a bit big, seeing as how the Solaris has over 1000 parameters in the preset list, and some of the others are big as well ...but I have the feeling I even don't know the whole picture.
Certainly, starting with simple devices, or building a device from the beginning would be easier.

john b.

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:05 am

Thanks for the info John & apologies to you Shayne.

I didn't think there should be any issues with the async to sync conversions etc, since the 'crocodile clips' that appear for signifying those conversion connections can be avoided while you build a circuit, by simply editing the actual pad attributes of the modules themselves.

Anyway John, I understand what you're saying regarding Noah device building being an undocumented mythical martial art. I think the excitement of being able to put finger to key & type things was clouding my judgement last night.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:51 am

King of Snake wrote: Obviously there's a market for higher end (and hence higher priced) gear. From pro studios to pro musicians to rich hobbyists

I don't get why all the people who are clearly not the target audience for this product keep bitching about the price of it.

Really? Then why did Creamware go belly up?
Secondly, I am not "bitching" about the price, it was a polite statement. I can however refer your abusive language to the moderators of this forum.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:53 am

In my case PCI overflow was caused by having type 1 cards. I am reluctant to start over a third time!

FrancisHarmany wrote:
BingoTheClowno wrote:As an hobbyist I don't see myself buying new hardware, especially at that price, especially after spending a lot on what I already have.
I don't understand whom is SC targeting with the new product?
People like me who are looking at maxed out DSP meter and PCI errors

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:57 am

In any event it was a big hassle transferring keys in my case.

I told him I wanted the duplicates transfered and instead he transfered all the keys and then he insisted I make a list of exactly what I wanted to transfer and he still got it wrong after that. As I recall I had to email him over and over.

Maybe it was not his English but it did not go smoothly at all. I own these keys and according to Creamware I was allowed to transfer them. Even though I paid them to do it, (other companies do not require payment and to nickel and dime customers because they could not stay afloat was stupid) he still was not able to do it in an easy and timely manner. It is idiotic that you have to email them. They should at least have a form. It is not profession and it is indicative of Creamware's lackadaisical attitude towards customer relations and business skills. I would be afraid to try transferring keys again, even under the new company. That is why I am not selling my duplicates. I do not want to get angry emails resulting from a sale and transfer that gets screwed up and I don't want them to accidentally give away or erase the wrong keys.

I noticed the "mypage" section is gone which ticks me off.

<~Shroomz~> wrote:
darkrezin wrote:Man.. no offence really but you'd have to either have a really really bad attitude or be a bit retarded to have problems communicating with Ralf.
I agree with this 100%.
Ralf has always got back to me in good english regarding anything I've asked of him.

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:16 am

I have already done 2 or 3 key transfers in my scope life

(when growing from an elektra to a 21 dsp system) and it is true this procedure remains a bit complicated as it depends on the eeprom programming of the board (actually, the user re-program the eeprom via strings and 2 mini-programs ... ). So I know it takes some time and several emails to do these tranfers.

Nevertheless, I had no problem when transfering and although you might not be ok with this policy, there are no soniccore plugins cracks around thanks to the "hardware" protection. And charging 35 euros (or 55 for several plugins in one go) remains cheap for sure ! Hope you will be luckier with your Xcite

Jo

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:44 am

Braincell, first of all i really dont have any sympathy for you spending $6000 on something you obviously dont need. thats your own problem.

and regarding this :

" It is idiotic that you have to email them. They should at least have a form. It is not profession and it is indicative of Creamware's lackadaisical attitude towards customer relations and business skills. "

WTF have you been injecting?

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:45 am

there's NO point either convincing people who are satisfied and willing to get another product from SC not to do so or convincing people who are unsatisfied and think the product is overpriced anyway to buy it.
that is simply a waste of time.

and by the way... whether the XITE (or the existing cards) are or were overpriced or not is a very personal decision. if it doesn't work for you, everything is overpriced, even at a fraction of the cost of a scope system. that means also: if you're satisfied with other gear, there's no point in spending more money.

it's your free decision to do further business with SonicCore or not.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:50 am

This could be automated. It simply is something that Creamware neglected to engineer. They probably figured it was easier for them to let Ralf do all the work even though he was clearly too busy with the ASB synthesizers at that time.

I hope that a more sane way of transferring keys is under development. Piracy is not my problem and I should not have to suffer because of some half-assed hair-brained protection scheme.

Several people in this thread besides me have commented on the price of the XITE-1. The price is an escalation of the normal high price of all Scope products.

The sales will reflect this. I expect an initial bump and then flat sales.

Post by **hubird** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:04 am

everybody his own world...

FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:12 am

edit: I love Xite!

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:13 am

If you had a good key transfer experience I believe you but I did not.

I told him I wanted all duplicates transfered to the other card. I do not see what is confusing about that. It seems very clear to me and that should have been the end of it.

Why do I have these duplicates? Because of the bundles. If you want to have a sale, then let me buy what I want. Do not force me to buy things I don't need just so you can increase the price of the sale! The best solution, if they insist on having bundles is to have a mix and match bundle in which a customer can make his own bundle Obviously I would be much more happy to have new things rather than duplicate modules. Why did they not consider this?

To the guy who thinks sales were a bad idea because it devalues the products, in my case, I only buy their software when it is on sale so they would not have any more money from me without the specials.

Hear this Sonic Core!

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:25 am

"I will get the version 5 software if it is a good value."

Well its free if you have Scope4.5 (which i suspect you have). And that aint bad

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:27 am

Great news!

Is it free if I am using Scope 4.0? That is what I am using because there was little difference. Maybe I should install 4.5 before 5 comes out? Will it screw up anything if I install it?

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:38 am

there's only one way to improve the situation, braincell:

get yourself hired by SonicCore and do everything better than the others do.

ralf isn't capable of perfoming proper key transfers? support him.
the protection scheme and its handling is badly designed? code a new one and make it backwards compatible.
the system is overpriced? reduce all costs and make it cheaper.
still too expensive? work harder. work for free.

yes, it's that easy.

you can of course keep complaining and expressing your frustration.
it just doesn't help anyone. not you, not me, not SonicCore.

the19thbear · Post by **the19thbear** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:39 am

only free if you have 4.5. not 4.0

and.. please... stop killing soniccore before they get out of bed!!
They dont ow anything to anyone. Buy it or not. I wont buy it because its too much money for me.. who knows about the future?? WE DONT!
my plea: stop speculating and wait a week. THEN we can be happy or sad depending what happens.

I will be happy no matter what because i get version 5 for free, new drivers and in the long run: a platform that is still alive!

thank you soniccore.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:40 am

Like I said before, it is important to have a balanced forum. If anyone is not happy with something, then they should feel free to express their opinions. Just saying how great it is will not help the company to improve.

Are you saying that everything is perfect? I have evidence that it is not. I don't think you are being fair to discourage all discourse.

Version 4.5 is free if you have version 4?

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:44 am

braincell wrote:Great news!

Is it free if I am using Scope 4.0? That is what I am using because there was little difference. Maybe I should install 4.5 before 5 comes out? Will it screw up anything if I install it?

basically its is free if you bought scope 4.5 except if you bought the chinese verion. check Soni core website for more info.

now we are getting terribly far off topic, if there are more licence question we probably should do it in another thread