SCOPE XITE-1: new DSP hardware from Sonic Core!

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:11 pm

How about releasing the source code for the Scope 4.0 driver? Just the driver.

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:06 pm

astroman wrote: (*) it has exactly 10 times the mflops spec of the 21065 used on current boards

If that's the case, then they'd still have to use fourteen DSP chips. Is there any other chip they might be using that's more powerful, enabling them to use fewer chips?

Tiger Sharcs aren't code compatible, are they?

Shayne

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:01 pm

that's correct - TS cannot run the existing Scope code.

of course my assumption about the chips is just a guess, but then it would be the most easy approach to use an existing design

there are not that many different Sharcs to choose from anyway, and this type is pretty affordable, starting at $27 per 1000 - and the peak flops multiply by 10 compared to the 21065.

cheers, Tom

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:29 am

Those are fast chips. I think I might have been going a bit OTT thinking it's like the equivalent of 140+ 21065's though...

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:10 am

It will fail. It is too expensive.

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:17 am

it is too expensive compared to what exactly?

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:21 am

I wondered about the chip they choose also.

I don`t think its the tigersharc, too.

At the end i am happy that we have sharcs on our boards as it seems to be the most advanced chip for audio tasks and the only chip that seems able to do 32bit fixed point handling which seems not only superior on paper but also subjectively measured by ear.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:45 am

piddi wrote:it is too expensive compared to what exactly?

There are many options these days. Creamware goes bankrupt partly because of their outrageously priced cards an now this company decides to make products that cost even more. I don't get it. Forget what you think the "value" is. I predicted the demise of Creamware many years ago and everyone jumped on me.

They won't be getting another dime from me. I have already spent $6,000 on Creamware hardware and software and it was not worth it.

Post by **garyb** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:57 am

i happen to know why they went bankrupt and expensive cards wasn't the reason. you don't want anything else from them? fine.
you don't think your cards were worth it? sell them.
there's no need to be a troll.

FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:22 am

Yes. and once people start selling scope cards we might get some more developpers

okantah · Post by **okantah** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:37 am

well said garyb !
this is very simple matter,
those who do not see the use of this cards & it's plateform must just follow garyb advise.
sound blaster always remain under your price.
we apprecaited the value of the creamware,soniccore products,their service is not that bad for me.
don't share your stress & frustractions here !

nightscope · Post by **nightscope** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:11 am

braincell wrote:There are many options these days.

Hi, braincell,

Do you have any suggestions for the viable alternatives or options you have in mind?

Cheers,

ns

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:43 am

braincell wrote: I don't get it. Forget what you think the "value" is. I predicted the demise of Creamware many years ago and everyone jumped on me.

You are always the voice of doom, must be great to go for a drink down the pub with chirpy you

. How could we forget your prediction - you are always reminding us. However i don't think your prediction involved the cards still being supported by the same people under a new banner and creating new products.

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:03 pm

Braincell is one of the few people who visit this forum who've constantly moaned & groaned about the platform & developement of it, meanwhile being seamingly oblivious to the fact that the devices forum here is more alive in the past 2 years than it's EVER been. What do you think has been the knock-on effect of that?

No offence braincell, but sell your cards & please stop needlessly moaning if you really aren't happy with what you have.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:07 pm

As tedious as braincell's comment is, it does highlight something that is clearly addressed by Xcite-1. IMHO one of the problems of the original cards was aiming it at a 'semi-pro' market. While in theory this seems an inclusive, democratic plan, in reality this achieves the opposite:

1. too many people buy it because it's just about affordable and the guy in the shop said it's amazing. When they get home they realise they don't know why they need it because they lack the knowledge to see its worth. The manufacturer gets bogged down in pointless tech support for people who don't know what they're doing.

2. people who need it and can easily afford it dismiss it because it's not expensive enough (due to years of being conditioned into this mentality by cheap shit gear and expensive good gear)

The thing is, the price point of the Xcite-1 is at a much higher level than the original Scope cards. I think this puts it directly in the market of people who actually need it. I guess SC may in time introduce cheaper versions (probably after stocks of previous cards run out) but until then, the Xcite-1 clearly is not aimed at the same market as the 3/4/6 and even 14-dsp cards.

I think the odds are still stacked against this becoming anything more than a niche high-end item, exactly because of the sentiments in braincell's post. The vast majority of the market only needs Reason, Ableton Live, some shit sounding plugins and some generic M-Audio-type soundcard+keyboard+preamp monstrosity... because that's what everyone else is using

I'm sure I'll attract a lot of negative responses to all this but whatever - IMHO it doesn't change the reality.

husker · Post by **husker** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:15 pm

<~Shroomz~> wrote:Those are fast chips. I think I might have been going a bit OTT thinking it's like the equivalent of 140+ 21065's though...

I don't think anyone said that 1 x 21362 was the equiv of 140 21065's?

1 x 21362 is equiv to 10 x 21065's, so we could assume the Xite-1 contains 14 21362's, which on the the basis of taking a Scope Pro design and 'upgrading' the design with new DSP's and PCIe chipset this would make a lot of sense.

So maybe there could be a 6 x 21362 and 3 x 21362 designs also?

All theoretical of course

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:23 pm

Sorry Husker, I didn't make myself clearly understood.

What I meant was that I thought XITE-1 had the equivalent of 140+ dsps used on the existing Scope boards (ADSP21065's). That figure of 140 is probably a bit too high though. I guess it's a bit less than that, although I can't be certain.

husker · Post by **husker** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:26 pm

Then I don't understand on what basis you don't believe SC's claim? Is it too much to get your head around?

Given that it is likely whatever DSP's are being used are at least 10 x the performance of the old ones, does that mean all the issues of loading plugs across muliple DSP's will go away (as in phase coherence) - you can fit a lot of plugin in 1 x super DSP!

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:51 pm

Not too much to get my head around.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with SC's claim, it's just that I was thinking it was based on 10x 14dsp power, not 10x 1dsp power. There's a big difference depending on how many of the new chips are actually in there. Basically, it was 'my bad'.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:56 pm

I am shocked at the misinformation in this thread!

You bastards! Don't any of the lot of you feel any sense duty to pass along the truth to up and coming SC's hardware??

Look..kids.. Your old Unka Sonic Core has been huffing the gas pipe at work again, so I'm gonna give ya the straight shit.

And... that's a very apt analogy.

Uncles.

Let's say... SC.

SC is like that sort of grumpy uncle that you know loves you and all, but he always says "ask your dad" when you try and finagle permission out of him to do something stupid.

You know he has your best interests at heart, but he just don't hand you whatever you want. He's there when you need him and he always tells the truth to you and about you, but trying to con him is a bitch.

Then there's Uncle AllOtherDigitalStuff:

He's your "cool" uncle who dresses really snappy. He's always got stuff in his pockets to hand out.. he's always in a good mood (until he passes out completely, but.. he almost always comes back.. if a little less lucid than the last time.)

He'll give you anything. "I wanna jump off the roof!" "WHY NOT!"

What a fun guy. Always tipsy... always promising the moon... Of course, he's crashed out on the sofa when you really want something, but if you sit tight, he'll hand you all his toys and wish you a good day.

But.. he always has this.. well.. you know.. this HUGE FAT RUBBER DICK sticking out of his ass. You can.. look! It's HANGING THERE! You can see it, your friends see it. It's embarrassing, but you don't want to offend him... no more goodies.

So you smile and nod.. hoping for the next big treat and you play with the toys he gives you, but there's always that fat, plastic, wiggly double wang-wong hanging out of his ass, making a lump in his trousers.

You forgive him, because.. he's family, but when you have to take in somebody for Parent Teacher day... you always ask old Uncle SC to show up for the major dudes.

You know?

There you have it.

Now go make the 2008 version of Sargeant Pepper.

- bunnerrab, the mixerman archives

http://mars.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/5034/0/80/