here is a synth i've been working on.
Here is a video made with a beta (obviously, some features where missing here such as the xmod and mixer, and the surface is not yet finished, and experimental here, with all the skins) the thing is that it is multitimbral (multi poly, and individual CC1 / 11 per channels, + 1 channel for the whole surface).
It is not as heavy as it looks, but changing presets takes time because of loading of many inserts (that's why i stop cubase + the video camera takes a lot of ressources)). Of course, it is much faster if placed on a second pc that does not have a sequencer (and video maker) running.
Can be used for multitimbral , or layered sounds (presets for midi channels).
------------- VIDEO REMOVED BECAUSE BETA SURFACES AND SOUND -----
------------- WILL BE BACK SOON ---------------------
I did this vid quickly and as usual, had to record on a soundblaster that does not support high dynamics, so the sound is not very clean. actually this was a previous beta and the sound was less good. Now the drive sounds much better in the lo-fi area. A lot of features are not demoed here and not shown as they are in other "menus".
I am also doing an individual version with linkable/exchangeable modulations and a special mixer for the effects and other link feature (like open/close synths, 6 modulation inputs... with 4, 6 or 8 channels (it takes more space than a normal mixer due to extra link inputs).
It will also allow to place some of the BlackBox oscillators directly in the synth in (such FM and other interesting stuff with chord oscillators).
would you buy this ?
would you buy this ?
Last edited by spacef on Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ben Walker
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FrancisHarmany
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For the presets, It will come first with a few , and then be extended (especially, because waiting for Scope 5 to iron Blackbox II filters/osc). otherwise, another month to wait (after release which is itself in...?). (it is 4 synths in 1, so it takes 4*more time).stardust wrote:depends on the price and the presets - like always
here is the first sounds to come out of multisynth, to test the "noise machine" to make percussions..... very basic.
download
(the solo is played totally live with a mouse in cubase piano roll
...Medhi,..My Brotha',
This is what I have envisioned for this beast to do.
Load up all of the modules for each synth / slot and leave them be. That way the presets could maintain the original structure and just take a snapshot of values for the selected components. I am not sure if the DP software allows modules to remain loaded. But certainly most performers at least, would enjoy that type of accessability.
One could then use a KS88 controller, or a Behringer, Zero Remote SL, etc. to make adjustments in real time, or be sick like me and try to use pedals for filter sweeps, and LFO rates, delay rates, etc.
Would this beast allow the RD II Modules, and Flexor III stuff to load as well as your modules? This would also be cool to insert Waldorf Wave Oscillators and possibly Sample Oscillators also.
I hope I am not crossing the line with these ideas, but this synth seems to have many possibilities, and I am offering myself as a Guinnea Pig.
It's great to see that you are working on this. Most keyboard controllers now are all 4 zone and this would be a live players dream.
Keep Up The Good Work !!
This is what I have envisioned for this beast to do.
Load up all of the modules for each synth / slot and leave them be. That way the presets could maintain the original structure and just take a snapshot of values for the selected components. I am not sure if the DP software allows modules to remain loaded. But certainly most performers at least, would enjoy that type of accessability.
One could then use a KS88 controller, or a Behringer, Zero Remote SL, etc. to make adjustments in real time, or be sick like me and try to use pedals for filter sweeps, and LFO rates, delay rates, etc.
Would this beast allow the RD II Modules, and Flexor III stuff to load as well as your modules? This would also be cool to insert Waldorf Wave Oscillators and possibly Sample Oscillators also.
I hope I am not crossing the line with these ideas, but this synth seems to have many possibilities, and I am offering myself as a Guinnea Pig.
It's great to see that you are working on this. Most keyboard controllers now are all 4 zone and this would be a live players dream.
Keep Up The Good Work !!
>>>
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2008 01:36 Post subject:
Medhi,..My Brotha',
This is what I have envisioned for this beast to do.
Load up all of the modules for each synth / slot and leave them be. That way the presets could maintain the original structure and just take a snapshot of values for the selected components. I am not sure if the DP software allows modules to remain loaded. But certainly most performers at least, would enjoy that type of accessability.
>>>>>>>
Well, yes absolutely. Several ways to do it. As you have several lists that you can use. Main preset (everything) or individual synth presets that you can transfer from a synth to another. I have also begun to put the preset lists on the osc/filters.
The individual presets contain almost all parameters, except inserts parameters (as usual). That way, those presets can be used to map any shape to the oiscillators: for example, you can have a template for bass, another for pads, another for something else, and apply them to any oscillator or filter. (without ever touching the osc/filters if you do not need to).
Of course there are preset list for everything, and one of the big preset list also recalls midi channel and polyphony. There is also a display that tells you with how much polyphony the sound was saved (so when using the preset list that bypasses the midi-poly, then there is a way to know if the sound you just loaded was edited for a polyphony of x or y).
RD/Flexor/BB2.... :
No problem with Waldorf wave and oscillators in generals (the BB2 "Meta Osc" was the one used during a good part of the "making of", then most of the BB2 oscillators were tested and they all work fine).
The filters are now diffrent : in the mixers, I have changed two things in the filter hosts, especially the modulation signals are not the same as usual. Most BB2 filters still work fine that way, so i suppose it is the same with RD filters.
Sample Osc: it is on the to-do list but I am not sure it can work (never tried). In any case, you can route samples to any synth filters/effects using one of the 4 inputs. Audio In signals do not use the synths VCA though, only filters /effects (more to mix together in common filters rather than providing a rom-player). What happens is that - if i remember well - the sample osc needs additional modules. For the moment, I prefered to do a slightly lighter "universal" os/filter loader. Things can be changed after more easily than the other way in this case.
For modular, there are several ways: you can use existing modular insert devices , but I have to do my own as I noticed that it does not always work well with midi CC. My own modular insert is a device which contains a modular host, and where user can build their patches. You CAN save the patch on disk, but to reload it again you need me to re-put the patch in a special device. I will build some patches over time, and users will be able to send me their own if they need it in that special insert.
So basically, it works with existing modules, but some of them will be redone (some BB2 filters) to match the new method (as they currently don't deliver what they are supposed to deliver).
For the insertable modulation, I think Zarg's RD also include insertable modulators, but I do not know if the method for gate triggering is the same. If yes, it could be compatible. I will do a few LFOs myself. Each of the modulation inserts here can output 2 different modulations.
>>>>
Remote controllers
>>>>>
- the structure is like that for controllers:
-- each synth takes midi on its own channel, except for surface controls: each synth has globals (porta, bend...), + midi CC 1 , 11 and 2 that are transmitted on individual channels (actually, that 's what i am testing to try to add something...).
- the surface controls share the same midi channel: this was the best method to allow control from a remote controller AND from the synth player (keyboard, CC1/11/2). In fact it allows to change from a multi to a dual or layered preset without the need to touch assignements each time. If this sounds complicated or limitative, you will understand when you use it, and is also linked to the fact that you can send any modulation from any synth to another active channel ("X mod" matrix for example). So you could modulate all modulable parameters with 1 midi CC. It is also a way to keep surface controls seperate from the "keyboard controls", and the need to be able to edit any synth while playing only 1 of them (on any midi channel).
this setup is particularily adapted to controllers that are seperate from the keyboard. For controls on keyboards, then may be programming is needed to change the surface controls midi channels.
The big version(s) of Multisynth will need their 10 dsp (a bit less in fact: it takes 6 dsp "full", but it tries to load on 10 dsp by making room for inserted filters / osc, and other hihher evel modulation (level here, refers to the "hierarchy of layers in the device" : you have the individual "internal" modulators of each synth, and the ones of the upper "layer" and that can be routed anywhere. This is understanble thinking about LFOs for example: there is no "individual" lfo, but up to 10 lfos that can be assigned to any synth.
I am just scratching the surface here... you won't need a demo, but you will need a manual to describe how it works. Of course, i won't wait to finish the manual to release the synth - some mixer update is waiting and screaming here - and the real deal about some functions can be explained in videos rather than plain text.
See you later, i 'll keep you posted.
cheers
Mehdi
ps: not XTC compatible , no XTC supported. I don't know if it will be recognized by XTC anyway.
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2008 01:36 Post subject:
Medhi,..My Brotha',
This is what I have envisioned for this beast to do.
Load up all of the modules for each synth / slot and leave them be. That way the presets could maintain the original structure and just take a snapshot of values for the selected components. I am not sure if the DP software allows modules to remain loaded. But certainly most performers at least, would enjoy that type of accessability.
>>>>>>>
Well, yes absolutely. Several ways to do it. As you have several lists that you can use. Main preset (everything) or individual synth presets that you can transfer from a synth to another. I have also begun to put the preset lists on the osc/filters.
The individual presets contain almost all parameters, except inserts parameters (as usual). That way, those presets can be used to map any shape to the oiscillators: for example, you can have a template for bass, another for pads, another for something else, and apply them to any oscillator or filter. (without ever touching the osc/filters if you do not need to).
Of course there are preset list for everything, and one of the big preset list also recalls midi channel and polyphony. There is also a display that tells you with how much polyphony the sound was saved (so when using the preset list that bypasses the midi-poly, then there is a way to know if the sound you just loaded was edited for a polyphony of x or y).
RD/Flexor/BB2.... :
No problem with Waldorf wave and oscillators in generals (the BB2 "Meta Osc" was the one used during a good part of the "making of", then most of the BB2 oscillators were tested and they all work fine).
The filters are now diffrent : in the mixers, I have changed two things in the filter hosts, especially the modulation signals are not the same as usual. Most BB2 filters still work fine that way, so i suppose it is the same with RD filters.
Sample Osc: it is on the to-do list but I am not sure it can work (never tried). In any case, you can route samples to any synth filters/effects using one of the 4 inputs. Audio In signals do not use the synths VCA though, only filters /effects (more to mix together in common filters rather than providing a rom-player). What happens is that - if i remember well - the sample osc needs additional modules. For the moment, I prefered to do a slightly lighter "universal" os/filter loader. Things can be changed after more easily than the other way in this case.
For modular, there are several ways: you can use existing modular insert devices , but I have to do my own as I noticed that it does not always work well with midi CC. My own modular insert is a device which contains a modular host, and where user can build their patches. You CAN save the patch on disk, but to reload it again you need me to re-put the patch in a special device. I will build some patches over time, and users will be able to send me their own if they need it in that special insert.
So basically, it works with existing modules, but some of them will be redone (some BB2 filters) to match the new method (as they currently don't deliver what they are supposed to deliver).
For the insertable modulation, I think Zarg's RD also include insertable modulators, but I do not know if the method for gate triggering is the same. If yes, it could be compatible. I will do a few LFOs myself. Each of the modulation inserts here can output 2 different modulations.
>>>>
Remote controllers
>>>>>
- the structure is like that for controllers:
-- each synth takes midi on its own channel, except for surface controls: each synth has globals (porta, bend...), + midi CC 1 , 11 and 2 that are transmitted on individual channels (actually, that 's what i am testing to try to add something...).
- the surface controls share the same midi channel: this was the best method to allow control from a remote controller AND from the synth player (keyboard, CC1/11/2). In fact it allows to change from a multi to a dual or layered preset without the need to touch assignements each time. If this sounds complicated or limitative, you will understand when you use it, and is also linked to the fact that you can send any modulation from any synth to another active channel ("X mod" matrix for example). So you could modulate all modulable parameters with 1 midi CC. It is also a way to keep surface controls seperate from the "keyboard controls", and the need to be able to edit any synth while playing only 1 of them (on any midi channel).
this setup is particularily adapted to controllers that are seperate from the keyboard. For controls on keyboards, then may be programming is needed to change the surface controls midi channels.
The big version(s) of Multisynth will need their 10 dsp
(a bit less in fact: it takes 6 dsp "full", but it tries to load on 10 dsp by making room for inserted filters / osc, and other hihher evel modulation (level here, refers to the "hierarchy of layers in the device" : you have the individual "internal" modulators of each synth, and the ones of the upper "layer" and that can be routed anywhere. This is understanble thinking about LFOs for example: there is no "individual" lfo, but up to 10 lfos that can be assigned to any synth. I am just scratching the surface here... you won't need a demo, but you will need a manual to describe how it works. Of course, i won't wait to finish the manual to release the synth - some mixer update is waiting and screaming here - and the real deal about some functions can be explained in videos rather than plain text.
See you later, i 'll keep you posted.
cheers
Mehdi
ps: not XTC compatible , no XTC supported. I don't know if it will be recognized by XTC anyway.
There is 4 stereo bus outputs but the synths are mono. It is stereo because there is a modulable pan at the synth outputs, and each bus has a stereo insert.
But if the pan / aux are not used, then it outputs mono on 2 channels (but i guess you can hard pan sound sources, to get 8 mono outputs for the synths and audio ins)..... The last mono insert before the pan can be converted into a "mono to stereo" insert slot to use the synths modulations (a bit like Biosc 4 delay or bass channel sections). I wanted (selfishly) to be able to use the synths as a simple 4 dry sound generators, but also to be able to create "combis" with effects and stuff....
But if the pan / aux are not used, then it outputs mono on 2 channels (but i guess you can hard pan sound sources, to get 8 mono outputs for the synths and audio ins)..... The last mono insert before the pan can be converted into a "mono to stereo" insert slot to use the synths modulations (a bit like Biosc 4 delay or bass channel sections). I wanted (selfishly) to be able to use the synths as a simple 4 dry sound generators, but also to be able to create "combis" with effects and stuff....
Awesone.......I have the cash in hand when you are ready.
I have been using the MB4 and FB5 lately to see their capabilities, and they are marvellous together, a stroke of genius. I want the Multi-synth to use those sweet little mono effects of yours and the 3 LFO device, and CompSat, etc.,etc. That synth will be awesome with 8 outputs !!! The FB5 sounds great w/ my TX816 Modular DX Router 8 x 8 patch. That is for recording though, and the FM8 will cover the live stuff as it's E.Piano's are quite classy.
I shall run the 8 mono channels w/ your synth, and then the 5 stereo channels and the MB4 will carry Gigastudio 4 and all of the VSTi stuff. FYI, my hardware mixer recieves the separate BUSS's and applies some ancient old effects like the Spring Reverb and Lexicon Vortex. It's a 4 BUSS design w/ 2 AUX's and it allows further separation of the signals into the Barbetta'a and Rotary cabinets,....sweet.
Promise me you will get some sleep this spring. If you had a breakdown from exhaustion we would be the ones to suffer also. Go to the French Riviera, or St' Tropez. I heard there is some mighty fine trim in those parts.
Orevua,
I have been using the MB4 and FB5 lately to see their capabilities, and they are marvellous together, a stroke of genius. I want the Multi-synth to use those sweet little mono effects of yours and the 3 LFO device, and CompSat, etc.,etc. That synth will be awesome with 8 outputs !!! The FB5 sounds great w/ my TX816 Modular DX Router 8 x 8 patch. That is for recording though, and the FM8 will cover the live stuff as it's E.Piano's are quite classy.
I shall run the 8 mono channels w/ your synth, and then the 5 stereo channels and the MB4 will carry Gigastudio 4 and all of the VSTi stuff. FYI, my hardware mixer recieves the separate BUSS's and applies some ancient old effects like the Spring Reverb and Lexicon Vortex. It's a 4 BUSS design w/ 2 AUX's and it allows further separation of the signals into the Barbetta'a and Rotary cabinets,....sweet.
Promise me you will get some sleep this spring. If you had a breakdown from exhaustion we would be the ones to suffer also. Go to the French Riviera, or St' Tropez. I heard there is some mighty fine trim in those parts.
Orevua,
This synth will surely be a beast !!
4 parts w/ sustain and poratmento controlled by a MIDI CC and pedal !
2 zones would have portamento de-activated, and the other 2 would have portamento and sustain combined to the pedal. Play four notres all " C's " across four zones while holding the notes w/ the sustain pedal, then take both fingers outwards in opposite directions on a Kurzweil ribbon controller.
That leaves 2 synths affected only by sustain, and the other 2 having that lovely bi-directional portamento glide. 4 FAT BASTARDS @ once !!
I am feverish.
4 parts w/ sustain and poratmento controlled by a MIDI CC and pedal !
2 zones would have portamento de-activated, and the other 2 would have portamento and sustain combined to the pedal. Play four notres all " C's " across four zones while holding the notes w/ the sustain pedal, then take both fingers outwards in opposite directions on a Kurzweil ribbon controller.
That leaves 2 synths affected only by sustain, and the other 2 having that lovely bi-directional portamento glide. 4 FAT BASTARDS @ once !!
I am feverish.
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paulrmartin
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Montreal, Canada
Hello Paul, I removed the video (and now the link because people get confused). The video has changed because the surface changed, the sound changed, and even myself changed (haha). Will be back soon.
I can release a few more specs now.
The MultiSynth (not 100% sure about name) has 9 midi channels: it is "multi" on 8 parts eventhough only 4 have sound generators.
- 4 for synths (3 identical, one smaller, with simpler filters)
- 2 for enveloppes
- 2 for triggers
- 1 for surface panel
Envelopes and triggers can be assigned to any midi channel and sent back to modulators. Triggers are mainly used for LFOs, to trigger them at will out of any synch or note-on info.
Each synth has one velocity layer for the main VCA and extra velocity layers for the pitch and filter envelopes. This means that the whole synth can be used to create a 4 velocity layers sound. Also, different velocity can have different envelopes (so you can have a pitch active only one hard velocity for example, or two envelopes assigned to filters, and that will be engaged at diffrent velocity ranges).
For reasons of dsp-ressources, i don't think i will go for 8 velocity layers (2 per synth) which is possible but takes more dsp. But it is possible. For the moment, you can achieve the same with midi CC, which is less precise though, so may be i will take extra days to make tests if it is worth it (i'm sure it is on one or two synths, but 4.... not sure
I can release a few more specs now.
The MultiSynth (not 100% sure about name) has 9 midi channels: it is "multi" on 8 parts eventhough only 4 have sound generators.
- 4 for synths (3 identical, one smaller, with simpler filters)
- 2 for enveloppes
- 2 for triggers
- 1 for surface panel
Envelopes and triggers can be assigned to any midi channel and sent back to modulators. Triggers are mainly used for LFOs, to trigger them at will out of any synch or note-on info.
Each synth has one velocity layer for the main VCA and extra velocity layers for the pitch and filter envelopes. This means that the whole synth can be used to create a 4 velocity layers sound. Also, different velocity can have different envelopes (so you can have a pitch active only one hard velocity for example, or two envelopes assigned to filters, and that will be engaged at diffrent velocity ranges).
For reasons of dsp-ressources, i don't think i will go for 8 velocity layers (2 per synth) which is possible but takes more dsp. But it is possible. For the moment, you can achieve the same with midi CC, which is less precise though, so may be i will take extra days to make tests if it is worth it (i'm sure it is on one or two synths, but 4.... not sure
Last edited by spacef on Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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irrelevance
Thanks irrelevance for this important question. I will answer immediately.
So far, according to tests, saving the patches is never a problem (in project, or on disk). I still have to test the reload possibilities : the existing modular insert should work as usual so reloading depends on the possibility of this insert (it works fine? yes? so answer to your question is yes)..
I must do a modular insert too, because of some special options i would like to include: in my own modular insert, you can save in projects and patches on disks, but not reload (not without me at least, because the saved patch has to be re-put in a special device). for the moemnt at least.
So there are several possibilities with modular inserts depending on the one you use and what you want to do with it. Limitation would come more from the decision made (use this one ot the other one) rather than an absolute impossibility. It is possible.
So far, according to tests, saving the patches is never a problem (in project, or on disk). I still have to test the reload possibilities : the existing modular insert should work as usual so reloading depends on the possibility of this insert (it works fine? yes? so answer to your question is yes)..
I must do a modular insert too, because of some special options i would like to include: in my own modular insert, you can save in projects and patches on disks, but not reload (not without me at least, because the saved patch has to be re-put in a special device). for the moemnt at least.
So there are several possibilities with modular inserts depending on the one you use and what you want to do with it. Limitation would come more from the decision made (use this one ot the other one) rather than an absolute impossibility. It is possible.