i want info about version 5... NOW!!!!

[valis]

Unix System V, commonly abbreviated SysV and rarely called System 5, was one of the versions of the Unix operating system. It was originally developed by AT&T and first released in 1983. Four major versions of System V were released, termed Releases 1, 2, 3 and 4. System V Release 4, or SVR4, was the most successful version, and the source of several common Unix features, such as "SysV init scripts" (/etc/init.d), used to control system startup and shutdown. The system also forms the basis of the System V Interface Definition (SVID), a standard defining how System V systems should work.

You can find more about System 5 on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_V

... and then there was OSF-1 which did a great job at stalling any combined efforts on Unix. My father worked for DEC during that era and just before it and I recall them touting how great OSF-1 would be. Then of course the SCO group did a lovely followup job on stalling efforts to bring the Unix community together by obfuscating their Novell agreements and putting wildly misleading info into the Unix community. The fallout of that particular debacle is still decaying...

[kylie]

My father worked for DEC during that era and just before it and I recall them touting how great OSF-1 would be.

we have some huge OpenVMS fans over here, still. and those who run it don't even think of getting rid of it...

[kylie]

mh, I should make another MVP Test, obviously...

Go for it Kylie !!

not before the new parts are assembled. don't have the PSU yet, and christmas is coming close. have to hurry to get hold of one...

[Tau]

PCIe would have plenty of bandwidth.

Just a heads up: magma reccomend the newer "pericom" chip-boards to use with EC and PCI-E. I have tried the Express card interface on an older DEC-chip board, and the performance was similar, if not worse, than the PCMCIA. Then with the Pericom ones, I get a little more bandwith (as translated into Masterverbs), but certainly not twice as much.

I have been struggling with Magma since the Summer, to upgrade my PCI/PCMCIA system to a PCI-E one, hoping for a full-blown portable Scope system, but I keep banging my head on details. For instance, I bought a pericom upgrade kit for my 2 slot, and it doesn't fit the chassis, even though I sent them the serial numbers of all the parts in order to get things right. (and now Magma says I have to buy a new chassis - very nasty they are...)

I decided to build a dedicated PC for Scope only, and it's working great. Now I'm getting an extra board to load on the Magma rack and use it as a portable soundmodule of sorts - maybe get Solaris to run in it!

A couple more things: the 2 slot boxes actually fit 3 cards, so it's perfect for Scope - 2 fans on the front of the cards help to cool things down, and the STDM cables just fit; and I have run a 2 slot with 2x15+1x6 DSPs, using a 120W 12vDC/DC PSU and it runs very well. no difference in performance when compared to the standard AC/DC PSU that comes with it, but a lot quieter - just plug it into an AC/DC adapter, or straight into your vehicles' lighter connector! That is way cool!

Summing up: at this point, PCI-E / EC interfaced Magma boxes have no comparison to the internally mounted PCI Scopes and are just a little bit more performant than their PCI/PCMCIA correpondents. Maybe with the new drivers in SCP 5 things will change... I keep reading from UAD and PoCo owners that the pericoms are much improved than the older DECs, but my Scopes fail to see the difference.

Just my 2 cents (I actually spent a lot more than that on Magma... )

T

[Tau]

You're very welcome, Stardust, I'm glad to be of help. I see no point in people going around spending ther money wrongly, and it is hard to read between the marketing blurbs. PZ has always been incredibly helpful to me, and I really like the no-bullsh** approach here.

First time I went around asking about Magma, I remember GaryB's words "either you want a working system, or you don't", and I though that's a bit harsh, but he was right on the money. It cost me 200EUR to build a 2nd PC for Scope, I won't even tell you how much I already spent on Magma, or you'd just fall down laughing.

But it's hard to get the right information these days! I only found about the Pericom chips browsing through the UAD forum (and I don't even have an UAD), Magma themselves didn't remember to tell me this when I ordered the EC interface... Just like they forgot to say that the upgraded parts (PCI-X slots intead of reg PCIs) wouldn't fit my chasis... And they still happily tell me that, if I buy a new chassis, it just might work!!!

On my Scope DAW, I get 17 MVs straight after install, and it performs beautifully. And after I took the Scope cards out of my dual-core, using only a PCI RME card, I'm getting much better audio/VST performance. Working @48-24, I'm sending out 18 tracks simul., 16 into Scope via Z-link and ADAT, and 2 for monitoring + 8 ADAT returns. I couldn't do this with Scope ASIO... And when I can afford it, a PCI-E RME with a Digiface will provide 24 I/Os of ADAT.

This is money (well) spent on performance, stability and quality. As far as Scope is concerned, Magma is just about mobility and retro-compatibility, IMO.

all the best,

T

[Neutron]

On my Scope DAW, I get 17 MVs straight after install,

T

!
what motherboard is that?

[Tau]

The MOBO is an AsRock P4i65G, with 1 GB PC400RAM.

I bought a used system with a P4 3Ghz and an ASUS P4C400, but it burned out during installation. I'm not a big fan of ASRock, but this was the only new one I could find around here with the features that I think are more appropriate for Scope, for what I've been reading here on Z: socket 478, Intel Chipset (856G), AGP and 3xPCI. Installed windows as Standard PC, no Hyperthreading, one single IDE HDD. Makes the cards think it's 2001 again!

The biggest difference from the system where they used to be (Dual-core, 2Gb RAM - 15 MV) is the graphics bus. AGP seems to be easier on the PCI than PCI-E, but even if this is just a myth, AGP latency can be tweaked with DoubleDawg, while PCI-E's cannot, which is an advantage in itself. I read there's a new MOBO, Q35 or P35, not sure, that has both PCI-E and AGP (and PCI) - maybe it's a good solution to have a fast quadcore DAW with Scope running...

But my scopes have found a home for now.

T

[valis]

I would have concerns about any board with PCIe and AGP, mostly wondering which one was bridged where (the AGP might be bridged into the south chipset for instance). Very doubtful there will be a solution to get both native on the north chip at the same time as it would be considered a transitional chipset for someone unwilling to buy a new graphics card immediately.

Also PCIe tends to hog the system bus because the chipsets are tuned to perform well in gaming and ram benchmarks. Very few mainstream users care much about overall bus performance, though if you pay attention to remarks from tech sites like anand/ars/xbit you can be relatively well informed when a solution has a very poor implementation.

[Silenzio]

First I'd like to say hello to all. It's my first post here!

Regarding SFP5:
I think most important thing is to upgrade ASIO driver. Present drivers NOT WORKING with Cubase 4.1 and Nuendo 4.1. So there will be very few new costumers for SC until they fix this. Fortunately they are working on new drivers. Bad news is they don't know WHEN they release it and if SFP5/new drivers will be available for XP AND Vista or for Vista only. If for Vista only, in practice it means most of us will have to buy a new PC, buy upgrades for almost ALL VST plugs, apps. So upgradeing to SFP5 is going to be VERY expensive. Next bad thing is that lots of proffesionalists don't recomend use Vista for pro-audio/video before first service pack release. It's going to be " Long way to Tipperary".
For me (and for many others SFP users, I suppose) it means I will not invest in SFP plugs, new cards etc... 'cos the future of Scope platform is not shure. Moreover many will sell their cards, witch is also not good for SC.
I'm working for post/sound design and composing music. Because of incompatibility C4.1/Nue4.1 and SFP AND not full compatibility C4.1/Nue4.1 with elier versions of C/Nue, sooner or later I will have to upgrade to Nue4.x. Now I'm considerig to buy a new computer with RME/Lynx and have "scope computer" as FX/synths/routing machine. Or just sell SC cards.(BTW I'm dreaming SFP5 will be such GREAT upgrade asNue4 is, but I can only dream at the moment)

Merry Christmas!!!

[ChampionSound]

Yes, it's indeed a little confusing for me if it makes sense to upgrade to Sonic Core Platform 5 on a XP machine. I guess not, as only the drivers will be compatible with Vista and nothing else changes, right?

Well, time will tell.

Merry Chrismas to all

[next to nothing]

(BTW I'm dreaming SFP5 will be such GREAT upgrade asNue4 is, but I can only dream at the moment)

Merry Christmas!!!

Well, if might be a great upgrade, but remember THEY ditched ASIO support not SC. This is not an isolated SC issue, its just bad craftmanship from Steinbug. How did they fix it? Well instead of fixing their code they simply say "ah lets just not support that card anymore".

This s surely a company that will never get money from me. period.

[garyb]

yeah, ASIO is a protocol. if it's implemented properly it just works. Scope ASIO has always worked, the protocol is the protocol.

now that Yamaha owns Steinberg, they've gone ahead and messed up the implimentation of their own protocol! in the Cubase forums there are many sound card owners complaining. also, cubase4 and nuendo4 DO work with Scope, and just fine. only at 44.1khz. to get other rates, the samplerate must be changed with Cubase/Nuendo already open @44.1...

this time, the new version has actual programmers working on it. there may not be lots and lots new, but i'll bet it'll still be improved somehow. that's how these particular guys have operated in the past....

[sonicstrav]

I am not building my new DAW until Scope or SoniccorePlatform 5 comes out. I would be happy with Vista support and sorting out the serious bugs in STS5000 (phasing) and Mod III. It is really damn lousy for a company to not sort out these bugs for such a long time.

[hubird]

It is really damn lousy for a company to not sort out these bugs for such a long time.

lousy?
be glad there still is something like SC...

[Silenzio]

Hmmm I don't think Steinb. is malicious to lock drivers support for SC (remamber Cub/nue 4.0 works well). In Nuendo (cubase) forum , if you serch for Creamware, you'll have 89 (345) matches. Forum has 129004 (657447) articles. RME has 1743 (almost 3000) matches. I really don't think Steinb company even think about SC. They care RME, Lynx, Motu, but SC..... Scope Card users is a small community, especially in -pro world.
Anyway, I mailed in Nue forum problem of "cooperation" SFP&newest Steinb. soft
And moderator from Steinberg side wrote:
"Changes have been made to the ASIO protocol for 4.1.
Most likely, these changes have revealed a bug/design flaw in the Creamware ASIO driver.
Of course, it can be a Nuendo bug too, but then almost every other card would have been affected too, and that's not the case.
I'll have a look into the internal Devtrack if this issue is reported, and if not i will enter a bug report for it. "

And after few days he add:
"Please don't overblow this whole issue.
There are no (major) problems found with any of the Sonic Cards, with the exception of the Creamware Scope card.
This card didn't had the same driver for almost 5 years now, and needs to be updated by them.
For that card, the driver update needs to come from the hardware manufacturer. There is nothing that Steinberg can do about this. "

ASIO is Steinbergs protocol. And they can change it (almost) whenever they want to. And job of sound cards makers is to be up to date (if they want stay on the market). I think Creamware/SC set "world record of unupgradeable drivers" .
Regarding possibily lack of XP drivers: I'm not a marketing specialist, but I think SC should rather rebuild trust/support for existing/new Scope users than limit it. Of coure if they seriously think about SCOPE platform.

I wish You (and me) ONLY good news from Soniccore

[garyb]

well that sounds good. of course if they change the protocol it ain't ASIO no more, is it? what a lie! explain this thread: http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=82878

there are Marian, Emu, Fireface800s and Creamware cards with problems there. Steiny has, in the vernacular, screwed the pooch on this one, but it's easier to blame the small manufacturers. they have done this before with problems actually, even before Yamaha, blaming the hardware. soon there will be another patch that will fix what they broke.

well, we'll see what happens. cheers.

[Silenzio]

well that sounds good. of course if they change the protocol it ain't ASIO no more, is it? what a lie! explain this thread: http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=82878

there are Marian, Emu, Fireface800s and Creamware cards with problems there. Steiny has, in the vernacular, screwed the pooch on this one, but it's easier to blame the small manufacturers. they have done this before with problems actually, even before Yamaha, blaming the hardware. soon there will be another patch that will fix what they broke.

well, we'll see what happens. cheers.

I will not explain this, but , belive mi - I'd love to. I hope steinberg will release patch which fix problem, but most likely soud cards manufactures will have to "adopt". Big company is allowed to do more things, that small company is not allowed to do (e.g.Pro tools till now don't read ANY stereo or multichannel tracks - only multimono is allowed. And they don't care about interchange formats including multichannel files, likeAAF, OMF).

Back to Stein & SC: true is:
1.Stein owns ASIO. And if they want to change anything - they just do it.
2.Scope cards wasn't upgraded from VERY long time. Hardware and sotware(!!!).
3. Stein is more trustworthy than SC at the moment for me.
4. I'm not working on SFP & Nue 'cos I just like thier logos, but 'cos till now it works just great for me. BUT I cannot afford to lose compatibility with my clients, musicians and generally people I'm workin' with etc...
5. Maybe (to get succes), guys at SC should ask their costumers WHY they 're still WORKING on SFP - and improve it in SFP5, and more important thing is: to ask why some costumers sold their cards, and don't wan't to WORK with SFP ANY MORE - and fix it (I think they still have lots of e-mails 'cos every card must be registered to get allkeys).

I'm not from Stein side or SC side, just like to work without "technical" suprises

Wait and see what hapens it is the best thing we can do.

Cheers

[astroman]

Back to Stein & SC: true is:
1.Stein owns ASIO. And if they want to change anything - they just do it.
2.Scope cards wasn't upgraded from VERY long time. Hardware and sotware(!!!)...

of course they are free to do whatever they like with it - but then they can't call it a standard anymore
the very same issue probably kept people away from Yamaha's MLAN, a pretty sophisticated solution - but it required custom Yamaha chips

I hate to quote it again, but I have used a low level network driver to connect to an Oracle database server for more than 10 years.
Originally developed under Mac OS-6(!) in the late 80s it followed certain driver and programming standards and did it's job through 6 different operating systems and on 3(!) different CPU types without one single update

do I have to mention it only broke when Apple intentionally changed the network protocol basics to cease existing solutions which still worked ?

the original developement guidelines were absolutely clear about the dos-and-donts with a certification by Apple that a program would never break if it complied to those rules - see the example above - and the parallels ?

all this upgrade and update bullshit is just that - either a justification for crappy work or moneymaking, a jolly good thing as we all know

cheers, Tom

[dragonfly]

Personally, I would like a release date. Everything in my studio works in Vista now, except the damn Scope cards. "Coming soon" isn't good enough for me. When is "soon" anyway?

[djsainz]

I am not well versed in dates for music fairs, but is there one coming with in 1 month? I have no idea at all.

Either Sonic Core will release their new platform this month or wait till the next major audio/tech event.