Some basic general questions about scope

[Sounddesigner]

contact Ralf, he always helps out ....

Ya sent him an email, now I try to wait patiently. I'm not very good at that unfortunately . Was there a scope version 3? or did it just go straight from 2.4 to 4.0?

I think you can download it from the support section of Sonic core's website- http://www.sonic-core.net/en/support/download.html

EDIT: Forgot you''ll still need to get keys from Ralph.

[garyb]

yes, the software is available there.

Ralf will give you a 4.0 key if you request it. the 4.5 package is a great deal and, for you, will add a mix & master or synth & sampler pack, so you should go for it when you can afford it. in the mean time, with the 4.0 key, you can still install 4.5.

be patient, we'll help you get it sorted. whatever growing pains you deal with, the end result will be worth it, at least in my experience.

[dbmac]

HI Mike. I'm also in TO. Been using Scope for 7+ yrs. If you run into any problems getting it installed give me a call (416 444 0085) - you'll still need the software keys from Ralf. I have all the files you need for 4.0 or 4.5 , depending on what licence you have.
Matter of fact, I'll be in L&M Bloor St. later today. I'll look around for you.

/dave

[Mike Goodwin]

Wow small world! Thanks for the support folks. I got my key this morning and installed everything just fine. I installed 4.0 because I just figured that 4.5 was not going to work. I think I will do a reinstall. I am yet to hear a single noise from the scope card though. For some reason it seems not to be sending out the lightpipe. I have only started going through the manual but the system seems somewhat straight forward. I opened up the pro synth session and have routed midi from my host internally to the scope card and all is well. The mixer is active and showing signal. I thought I was home free but when I create a hardware adat output and rout the master out from the mixer to the adat outs my firestudio gets nothing. I know the Firestudio is working because I have setup adat links between it and a second computer here in the studio in the past. I hope my card is not fried. I am thinking that it more likely just me though. Early days.

And to dave, kind offer. I will be in the shop all evening.

[Mr Arkadin]

Wow small world! I installed 4.0 because I just figured that 4.5 was not going to work.

4.5 is 4.0 just with some extra devices, so if one works, the other will.

[zangsta]

Also, the 4.5 installer is better, easier with registrations etc.

Jörgen

[Mike Goodwin]

Scope 4.5 with adat is now running very well on my computer

I just wanted to say thanks to all that spent there time helping me through it all. Offering advice and opinions. It was very helpful.

Thank you !

[garyb]

[hifiboom]

Scope 4.5 with adat is now running very well on my computer

I just wanted to say thanks to all that spent there time helping me through it all. Offering advice and opinions. It was very helpful.

Thank you !

glad you got it working.

[clanctot]

[Sounddesigner]

It's good to see your up and running. Welcome to the wonderful world of SCOPE.

P.S. I'm curiouse to know if you where given the keys for Mod 3 and other plugins? After i installed the software and packaged keys only modular 2 was installed so i had to email Ralph for Mod 3 separately.

[Mike Goodwin]

It's good to see your up and running. Welcome to the wonderful world of SCOPE.

P.S. I'm curiouse to know if you where given the keys for Mod 3 and other plugins? After i installed the software and packaged keys only modular 2 was installed so i had to email Ralph for Mod 3 separately.

I did not get any modular at all. I also can't seem to find the 24/48 mixer. My serial is from 2.4 so I do not now exactly what I am actually entitled to. There is absolutely no documentation that I can find on the Sonic Core site regarding this older version. Also it seems there is no where to buy the upgrade or even a price. My response from Sonic Core gave me my key but there was literally no other information to any of my other questions about the platform. A one sentence email to reply to several simple questions He got me up and running quick but no more. Can anyone tell me if the upgrade offer to 4.5 still stands? I would like to get it with the synth pack but it is not listed under software that I can buy on there site.

There is one other thing regarding scope that I seem to be missing. From what I understand of the platform I should be able to rout signals directly from my host program internally to the scope mixers so I can mix them down to another source. I have read through the manual but I am missing the point it seems. If anyone can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

By the way my first impressions are very good. I only have what seems to be the very entry level synths but some of them do sound very good. There is a certain solidity to the sound. Over all the closest thing I have heard to it is the nord synths, and that stand high with me. The scope is much less harsh in the high end and. I cant comment to much on the mixers as I only have the one basic mixer. I want to find the 24/48 and take a listen to the EQ and compression that it offers. Again it is still early days and I am still very happy to find out that my card is in good working order

[Sounddesigner]

4.5 Has to be requested for to Ralph and costs 199 euros (i paid threw wire transfer there may be other payment options now don't know). When i got my SCOPE i had 4.0 and keys for many plugins that came with that platform, you may wanna ask Ralph how do you get all the plugins that came with 4.0 aswell. There is a ton of plugins that ship with current project cards even before the 4.5 choice of packs. You may wanna check Sonic Cores website for a list of all the plugins that ship with current Project cards then ask Ralph how do you get them. I even have key for older platform versions 3.1. I don't know if you'll have to purchase both 4.0 and 4.5 to get all that comes with current cards or not.

The SCOPE stock plugins are of pretty good quality and not to be underestimated. SCOPE has the best stock plugins out here imo. Some go beyond good to very good and even great. The current Cards ship with many (including several nice mixers/modular2/3, etc).

[garyb]

if you get the upgrade, you'll have the full complement of devices that a scope project would have if bought new, the $199 for the extra pack is a no brainer. it's no big deal, you'll get new keys and you can install the additional devices either by running the installer again, pointing it to the new keys, or by running a couple of files available on the ftp site along with the 4.5 software called oxe files.

the stm2448 didn't come out until v3, so you don't have a key for it(yet).....

i believe SonicCore has a paypal account and they can probably take your credit card as well. you're almost there.

as to getting in and out of your host, in the routing window, there's a heading called "software i/o". in there you'll find the various flavors of ASIO drivers which will be your input(seq dest) and output(seq source) jacks for the sequencer/host. you may have one pair and only one pair only of these modules in your project. right click on the sequencer source module go to "sufaces" and then click on the "asio settings"(or similar) choice. there you can choose the number of ins and outs needed by click/drag. please be aware that you must have the proper destination module with it's corresponding source module.

you must place the asio modules in the window and choose the proper number of channels BEFORE opening the sequencer/host! if you're changing the asio driver or number of channels you must FIRST CLOSE the sequencer/host. the sequencer midi source and destination modules are the same except that you must use multiple modules if you need multiple midi i/o.

most sequencers don't need any further setting up, other than choosing to use the asio driver, to see all the available i/o(the main exception is cubase which requires you to open "vst connections" under the "devices" menu and then enable the additional i/o you wish to use....). the sequencer usually has a drop down menu to choose i/o for each track or bus.

[Mike Goodwin]

if you get the upgrade, you'll have the full complement of devices that a scope project would have if bought new, the $199 for the extra pack is a no brainer. it's no big deal, you'll get new keys and you can install the additional devices either by running the installer again, pointing it to the new keys, or by running a couple of files available on the ftp site along with the 4.5 software called oxe files.

the stm2448 didn't come out until v3, so you don't have a key for it(yet).....

i believe SonicCore has a paypal account and they can probably take your credit card as well. you're almost there.

as to getting in and out of your host, in the routing window, there's a heading called "software i/o". in there you'll find the various flavors of ASIO drivers which will be your input(seq dest) and output(seq source) jacks for the sequencer/host. you may have one pair and only one pair only of these modules in your project. right click on the sequencer source module go to "sufaces" and then click on the "asio settings"(or similar) choice. there you can choose the number of ins and outs needed by click/drag. please be aware that you must have the proper destination module with it's corresponding source module.

you must place the asio modules in the window and choose the proper number of channels BEFORE opening the sequencer/host! if you're changing the asio driver or number of channels you must FIRST CLOSE the sequencer/host. the sequencer midi source and destination modules are the same except that you must use multiple modules if you need multiple midi i/o.

most sequencers don't need any further setting up, other than choosing to use the asio driver, to see all the available i/o(the main exception is cubase which requires you to open "vst connections" under the "devices" menu and then enable the additional i/o you wish to use....). the sequencer usually has a drop down menu to choose i/o for each track or bus.

Thanks again sounddesigner and garyb. I fired off another email to Sonic Core and am waiting for them to get back to me.

With your help garyb I figured out what I was doing wrong with my setup in regards to internal routing to the card. I was going about it the wrong way all together. Bottom line all is working well now Ok folks I think I am sold on this platform. Tried sending out a project that I was working on into the 16/32 mixer for summing and I am quite sure that things just sounded plain out better. More open with better sound stage definition. It twas not night and day but it is either there or not. It is a sound that you can't after the fact. Is there any documented explanation as to what gives the scope mixers there sound? If so I would love to read it. I think I read here in the forum somewhere that they where using linear in instead of floating point. I am not sure why that would be better or worse but it would be interesting to see what the facts are.

Again thanks for all the help. It has sped up my setup time enormously, and at the moment my time is very limited so it means a lot.

[Mr Arkadin]

Just to make sure you're squeezing every ounce of definition out of your mixer, make sure to go to the Options page of the mixer and light the Phase Compensation button. This makes sure all channels are phase aligned (it uses a little more DSP, hence it is an option). Oh you'll also find the Pan Law (6db) light in there as well if you want to set that up.

[nightscope]

Is there any documented explanation as to what gives the scope mixers there sound?

There's plenty of stuff to read on the web regarding Sharc DSP chip qualities and specs and the advantages of coding for them in the audio realm. To me the sound coming from Scope cards versus native based DAW's is, actually, as clear as night and day. Of course, both system's can sound awful in the right, or wrong, hands. I think SonicCore weren't too far wrong when they wrote on their new site.

"The employed SHARC DSP was specifically designed to perform high-resolution audio processing. It always processes the audio with a 32-bit resolution, and algorithms and parameters are computed with a floating-point resolution of even 40 bits. If there are no such powerful structures at hand, programmers will have to make compromises regarding the resolution (accuracy) again and again for performance purposes; so the weakest link in the processing chain will often determine the sound. With SHARCs, however, you never have to compromise: the highest resolution is maintained during the entire process without affecting the performance. You can hear it in the results."

- SonicCore site

Similarly Katz when he said,

"First, the DAW...yes, it may slice and dice, but does it sound good? Before you buy the latest cheap box, don't forget that it takes a lot of talent and man-hours to produce good DSP software. One man-year is not enough time to produce a set of good sounding equalizers, a software digital mixer, mature editing tools, and recording and overdubbing tools. In five man-years, a talented set of individuals can create a working, reasonably dependable software-based system, and in ten man-years, a very sophisticated system. The key word is talented. The company producing this gear must have the right combination of skilled DSP engineers, user interface engineers, alpha-test supervisors, beta test supervisors, and a sufficient beta tester user base to give feedback. Because every computer program has bugs, lots of them. The trick is to turn them into little bugs before the program makes it to the street, where those bugs'll bite you. For we're not creating word-processing documents here, we're trying to make high-fidelity music. One misplaced bug in DSP code can produce subtle, or severe sonic fatalities."

I know nothing about the innards of DSP workings. But I know what sounds OK.

Hope you enjoy working with your new options.

ns

[astroman]

...I think SonicCore weren't too far wrong when they wrote on their new site.

"The employed SHARC DSP was specifically designed to perform high-resolution audio processing. ...

Similarly Katz when he said,

"First, the DAW...yes, it may slice and dice, but does it sound good?
... In five man-years, a talented set of individuals can create a working, reasonably dependable software-based system, and in ten man-years, a very sophisticated system. The key word is talented. ...

I may add that Analog Devices did exactly what Katz wrote when they 'designed' those chips and their basic software library.
That's the main difference to any other DSP (hardware) platform and of course to general purpose math libraries as you find them in C++ developement systems etc.

even the most simple calculus formula can be implemented in at least a dozen different ways in software
add the fact that DSP processing routines frequently contain lots of nested loops
a tiny variation in the inner loop (it doesn't even have to be an error or a lack of precision) can have a tremendous impact on the result.

since Sharc machine code was designed and optimized with audio processing in mind, it perform exceptionally well in this domain - which is also reflected by frequent use of that DSP type in high end consumer audio.

cheers, Tom

[dawman]

Brotha' Man Astro,

Your contributions here are invaluable.

It's nice to have such a well educated person commenting on topics such as the SHARC programmers.

It's a long shot, but I'll ask anyways, as I find this stuff fascinating....How could they take a DSP chip meant for defense purposes and make it a perfect audio solution. I have read that these were actually meant for radar interception, and doppler radar. Everyone else was using Motorola's, and they chose to use Analog Sevice's chips?


Dank Im Voraus,

[nightscope]

Thanks, Tom. Good to have a perspective from someone who knows about the specifics of this stuff.

ns