Some basic general questions about scope

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:42 am

Yep, things are happening:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23766

Ben Walker · Post by **Ben Walker** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:49 am

Mike Goodwin wrote:It is to join my collection of Tassman, Reaktor and Nord Micro Modular as well as others.

and then

Mr Arkadin wrote: i'm thinking you're going to love Modular III, especially if you add Adern's FleXor3 to the mix.

Not to mention a whole bunch of modules from other 3rd party developers, some free, some commercial. You can see a complete list of 3rd party modules here. The list of cwmodular modules on that page is woefully out of date (there are 60+ from cwmodular alone now) but I'll be putting that right soon.

Mike Goodwin wrote:P.s. is there anywhere I can hear audio demos of the synths? I to my surprise can not find any audio clips of the modular 3 anywhere. Am I just missing them? Any links to dry audio examples of the synths on the scope platform would be great!

There are a few examples of what you can do with Mod 2/III
here. You should also check the cwmodular site, this has quite a few examples of unprocessed oscillators, etc, although you have to hunt a bit to find them. (for example)

Glad to hear you're taking the plunge - I know we're all pretty biased round here, but I don't think you'll be disappointed. My first Pulsar card was without a doubt the best purchase I have ever made for my music creation.

Ben

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:31 pm

DAM

Nice site! it is nice to get in on it right now. There is some new energy about it.

Thanks to Ben Walker for the links! The examples sound very good to me. They remind me of my nord modular. A very clear and crisp sound. It is hard to get a overall sense from listening to 1 second samples of different OSC's. They are the best raw examples that I have heard.

I am looking for a little bit of advice from the folks here. I have a standing offer on a 3 dsp card. It would come with Optimaster, VINCO and PSY Q. What is a fair price for this? I was thinking that I would use the upgrade offer to get the synths that I wanted but hey then I would almost have both software packs.
My question is this.... can you use multiple home/project/pro cards as one system or do you have to use one master card and then only use booster cards to add power?

I ultimately would like to be able to run a basic 24/8 style mixer. The mixer would not need an EQ but the ability to run several compressors would be nice. At the same time I would want to be able to run a couple of nice synths. I plan on investing in the expanded modular system and love the sound of the pro12 and Minimax. I do not do a lot of massive pads and what not but I do love me a nice modular! I know that the home card will not get me there but just how much would a setup like that need in the way of DSP chips? Any ballpark figures or guesses? I am just trying to get a long term idea of what it will cost.

Thanks again!

Sounddesigner · Post by **Sounddesigner** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:35 pm

The Modular 3 is my favorite synth of all time. It does have a very clean sound and is a true general purpose synth to me. It is my favorite even without Flexor but Flexor definitely improves it greatly.

With my 6 dsp card i'd max out quickly, i'm usually able to run one top quality synth, one mixer (24/48 and a couple effects along side my Native stuff. Or 1 mixer and 2 synths and still maybe an effect or two or more depending on preset and wich effects i use. I bought more scope devices so i outgrew 6dsp quickly, plus i wanted to use more complex patches and do more with SCOPE. Some of the devices take alot of dsp power some a little so what i'd get out of 6dsp's varies greatly. Much of the platform may be unusable to you with only 3 dsp.

Post by **garyb** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:54 pm

record the big synth first. mix later, this is how music has always been done except for demos... a mixer and 10 or 20 compressors is no problem with a 6dsp card in mixdown...

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:13 am

Mike Goodwin wrote: My question is this.... can you use multiple home/project/pro cards as one system or do you have to use one master card and then only use booster cards to add power?

You can use any two to three Scope cards in any combination you like - just make sure you have what's called an STDM cable which connects them. They all effectively become DSP boosters to the main card. The thing to be aware of is the DSP allocation. So if you had say a 3DSP card in the first slot then if you have a mixer or big synth loading it will try and fit it on the 3 DSP card. If you have a bigger card put that first in your system and cascade to the smaller card.

Also you can have software devices on any card or split over several - it just means you have to be aware when importing the keys to import them to the right hardware number. Once done it will act like one giant card. For ease of use i have all my software assigned to one card. This isn't necessary but it just keeps things neat. There is a transfer cost (€55 for multiple devices) should you decide to transfer all your devices to one card.

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:29 am

Great feebback again. Thanks. This gives me a very god idea of what to expect. I may just go for a home card as that is all I can find at the moment and get a project card or a booster shortly down the road.

okantah · Post by **okantah** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:46 am

Hi mike you say The hole thing has got my head spinning a little.
I promise you this time,not yet, if got scope in your system you might be crying to divorce any this in your life in order to have time for that scope bitch .
have fun

Sounddesigner · Post by **Sounddesigner** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:18 pm

Mike Goodwin wrote:Great feebback again. Thanks. This gives me a very god idea of what to expect. I may just go for a home card as that is all I can find at the moment and get a project card or a booster shortly down the road.

With home you should be able to get up one instance of a synth/modular patch and possibly one effect or two. You'll have to use SCOPE in a simple way but the job can be done and you'll have access. Small mixer, few modules, few voices, ect

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:32 pm

OK folks can anyone tell me if the Luna 2 card is any different than the current project card? It looks like I may have found my box! Also how do the converters on the breakout boxes of yesteryear compare to the current good quality converters in products like RME for example? Has anyone had a chance to compare?

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:11 pm

The luna is a 3 dsp board.
I'd say wait a little and get a 6 dsp board, but you know what's good for you... For serious work 6 dsp is a bare minimum, plus you'll likely have more plugins.

I have a luna box, it's very useful but don't expect great conversion. This is fair conversion, but compared to my lucid unit the luna box is blurry and noisy. It's night and day. The box is not a big improvement over the on board converters. If you want serious conversion, buy 2-4 channels of the last generation of converters, like echo, tc konnekt or something like that. Things evolve at each generation and prices drop as quality rises, generally.

Be patient my friend, you'll soon be toying with this awesome toolkit!!

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:48 am

I am sorry I meant to say Pulsar II, I did more reading around and as far as I can tell this is the same thing as the current project card. Thanks for the info on the converters. I was a little sceptical considering the age of them. I currently own a Presonus Firestudio and have to think that the converters in it are going to beat it out pretty easy. I was asking because the seller has the A16 breakout for $200 bucks! But in the end I think I would be better off saving for more DSP

the19thbear · Post by **the19thbear** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:11 am

eliam wrote:
I have a luna box, it's very useful but don't expect great conversion. This is fair conversion, but compared to my lucid unit the luna box is blurry and noisy. It's night and day. The box is not a big improvement over the on board converters. If you want serious conversion, buy 2-4 channels of the last generation of converters, like echo, tc konnekt or something like that. Things evolve at each generation and prices drop as quality rises, generally.
end quote:

is there any difference in converters on the ultra and luna boxes?? I didnt know that they werent that good. hmmm... i'm gonna keep my ears open!

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:17 am

well, that's a source of frequent confusion

there is a 16 channel converter called A16 with Adat only connection (no Z-Link aka IEEE1394) with 18 bit converters (afaik) using the most significant 16 bits.
and the A16 Ultra with additional Z-Link, which is the successor of the previous box and features 24bit converters.

the original A16 is still pretty sought for it's special sound, but of course it starts sufferering from age today if the unit was on as the typical studio workhorse it used to be. $200 is a fair price for that box - I've seen them for upto 400 Euro on eBay

cheers, Tom

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:20 am

the19thbear wrote:...is there any difference in converters on the ultra and luna boxes?? I didnt know that they werent that good. hmmm... i'm gonna keep my ears open!

I remember something was mentioned about the exceptional clock quality of the Lucid devices and (possibly) an improved analog stage...
afaik the converters in the Creamware/SonicCore boxes are the same as onboard

cheers, Tom

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:22 am

I am very happy with my Firestudio, it sounds very good and I will just use it to do my conversion. I assume that Scope being what it is in the way of routing sound it will not be an issue bypassing the audio outs on the Pulsar2 card and going straight to the firestudio

Ben Walker · Post by **Ben Walker** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:01 am

Ben Walker wrote: The list of cwmodular modules on that page is woefully out of date

I've now brought the cwmodular module listing up to date. Enough to make your mouth water?

Ben

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:33 am

damn it is time i enter the modular world .... great website ! I tend to prefer the COS/VOID philosophy to get the sound but your website gives a very comprehensive and simple information. Thanks !

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:40 am

Mike Goodwin wrote:I am very happy with my Firestudio, it sounds very good and I will just use it to do my conversion. I assume that Scope being what it is in the way of routing sound it will not be an issue bypassing the audio outs on the Pulsar2 card and going straight to the firestudio

If the Firestudio got ADAT, and your Pulsar II does as well, i guess you're home free. You wont be able to route it via firewire, and even if your pulsar has an out/inlet which looks like a firewire connection, DONT try using it for anything else than an A16/A16 Ultra!!!

Post by **garyb** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:48 am

you can't just bypass the audio outs if the card is being used for asio, and there's no way for scope to connect with the firestudio directly inside the computer, it just the way computers are made. scope can access it's drivers, but not another interface's, since a driver connects between hardware and software, not hardware to hardware. the firestudio CAN connect via the external analog, s/pdif-aes/ebu, or adat connectors. an A16 and the scope card will be an improvement over the firestudio and be less convoluted to operate than two interfaces at the same time, however. there's nothing spectacular about the firestudio, anyway(not that it's not a good product, it's very good, just not amazingly outstanding), so i suggest selling it to help finance the transition(you can always keep using it right up till it sells).....