one helpful thing is that you can sell your other card to help offset the cost of the new card....
Some basic general questions about scope
a project card is a great place to start! $400 is a good deal. if this one doesn't happen, there'll be another card soon, so don't spend the money on other things! if you end up waiting a minute, you'll just be able to save more money...
one helpful thing is that you can sell your other card to help offset the cost of the new card....
one helpful thing is that you can sell your other card to help offset the cost of the new card....
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Mike Goodwin
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- Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:42 am
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Thanks for all the posts.
So another series of question to the people that use scope to mix. First lets make sure that I understand this correctly. When you install the scope software you get a multitude of virtual ASIO inputs and outputs that show up in your host. Then when you setup your session in your host you just set all your tracks to output to a virtual mixer in scope. This is a simplification but that is the basic idea? I see a potential for problems in several places here. One is how much latency is added? How do you deal with automation of the mixer in scope? Is it done through a virtual midi input into scope from your host? As well how do you deal with rendering your tracks, do you bring the finished two track mix back into your host just so you can record it?
Again thank you all for your feedback. I figure that all this is in manuals but it is great getting the information from people that actual work with the system. As it can often be summarised into a few short sentences. That and personal experience goes along way when trying to get a feel for it.
So another series of question to the people that use scope to mix. First lets make sure that I understand this correctly. When you install the scope software you get a multitude of virtual ASIO inputs and outputs that show up in your host. Then when you setup your session in your host you just set all your tracks to output to a virtual mixer in scope. This is a simplification but that is the basic idea? I see a potential for problems in several places here. One is how much latency is added? How do you deal with automation of the mixer in scope? Is it done through a virtual midi input into scope from your host? As well how do you deal with rendering your tracks, do you bring the finished two track mix back into your host just so you can record it?
Again thank you all for your feedback. I figure that all this is in manuals but it is great getting the information from people that actual work with the system. As it can often be summarised into a few short sentences. That and personal experience goes along way when trying to get a feel for it.
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hubird
everything yes I guess.
It's a piece of cake actually, you got it already I think.
Inside Scope there's hardly any latency, less than 1 ms, like in any other hardware.
ASIO takes latency, Scope van handle several levels, depending on your native processor.
automation is simple, you rightclick on any parameter in SFP to set the cc, it even 'learns'.
You record that cc in your sequencer from any midi controller.
It's a piece of cake actually, you got it already I think.
Inside Scope there's hardly any latency, less than 1 ms, like in any other hardware.
ASIO takes latency, Scope van handle several levels, depending on your native processor.
automation is simple, you rightclick on any parameter in SFP to set the cc, it even 'learns'.
You record that cc in your sequencer from any midi controller.
there simply is no rendering in scope....
but thats none of a big problem...
you set up as many asio tracks as you need ( up to 64 asio channels to go out of your software)
route them in sfp into a virtual scope mixer.
Additionally you can route hardware inputs and scope dsp synths into the virtual scope mixer. There you bring them all together add scope fx or hadrware fx which you can easily integrate and then you route back the outputs of this mixer to free asio channel (up to 64 asio channels to go into your software)
You simply press record in your favorite host and record inf realtime. This way it works pretty fine....
When I first moved to scope I thought I`d miss the render feature, but the advantages(routing,integration of hardware, synthqualities) by far outweight the 1 or 2 minutes time you are loosing by realtime recording.
So don`t be afraid.
but thats none of a big problem...
you set up as many asio tracks as you need ( up to 64 asio channels to go out of your software)
route them in sfp into a virtual scope mixer.
Additionally you can route hardware inputs and scope dsp synths into the virtual scope mixer. There you bring them all together add scope fx or hadrware fx which you can easily integrate and then you route back the outputs of this mixer to free asio channel (up to 64 asio channels to go into your software)
You simply press record in your favorite host and record inf realtime. This way it works pretty fine....
When I first moved to scope I thought I`d miss the render feature, but the advantages(routing,integration of hardware, synthqualities) by far outweight the 1 or 2 minutes time you are loosing by realtime recording.
So don`t be afraid.
i use the sequencer's automation when i actually need it.
while tracking, i use the sequencer's mixer and the main outs go into a scope mixer. when doing the final mix, i send individual outputs from each track into the scope mixer and combine signals there. there's nothing keeping me from using say, cubase's automation for mutes and volume or aux sends or levels. the auxes in the sequencer can feed out their own asio channel(up to 64).
the latency is no an issue, monitoring doesn't happen in the sequncer, it happens in scope. the only latency issue is when monitoring vstis. these will have the asio latency chosen in scope, as little as 3-4 ms @ 44.1k. since inputs into scope can be monitored on the same mixer as the sequencer, overdubs and such experience zero latency. no latency is added.
the midi i/o on the scope card, and the midi JACKS in the sequncer also are available in the routing window and can be routed in and out of the real and virtual world any way you want.
rendering is stupid and counter productive. music is about HEARING which requires REALTIME monitoring. rendering SEEMS faster, but after you render you need to listen for click and pops, artifacts and to be sure you even like the result. recording in realtime, you listen and record at the same time and therefore save a step. also, being that it's the moment of truth, you will likely hear that problem you need to fix, saving you more time. real music is mixed in real time.
you can record back to a track in the host(out the host, into scope and back into the host), or as i told earlier, you can record to another app in the same machine, a dat machine, a reel to reel, ipod, whatever......
while tracking, i use the sequencer's mixer and the main outs go into a scope mixer. when doing the final mix, i send individual outputs from each track into the scope mixer and combine signals there. there's nothing keeping me from using say, cubase's automation for mutes and volume or aux sends or levels. the auxes in the sequencer can feed out their own asio channel(up to 64).
the latency is no an issue, monitoring doesn't happen in the sequncer, it happens in scope. the only latency issue is when monitoring vstis. these will have the asio latency chosen in scope, as little as 3-4 ms @ 44.1k. since inputs into scope can be monitored on the same mixer as the sequencer, overdubs and such experience zero latency. no latency is added.
the midi i/o on the scope card, and the midi JACKS in the sequncer also are available in the routing window and can be routed in and out of the real and virtual world any way you want.
rendering is stupid and counter productive. music is about HEARING which requires REALTIME monitoring. rendering SEEMS faster, but after you render you need to listen for click and pops, artifacts and to be sure you even like the result. recording in realtime, you listen and record at the same time and therefore save a step. also, being that it's the moment of truth, you will likely hear that problem you need to fix, saving you more time. real music is mixed in real time.
you can record back to a track in the host(out the host, into scope and back into the host), or as i told earlier, you can record to another app in the same machine, a dat machine, a reel to reel, ipod, whatever......
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Mike Goodwin
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:42 am
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Great feedback. I do value offline rendering though. I Simply do not always have time to sit through a 120 min mix. As for clicks and pops, I have had the fortune of having a computer that is free of them for over a year now. Sometimes sitting around for up to two hours when I could have it done in 5 minutes is just not a good feeling. For projects like that I will just my native applications. No big deal.
P.s. is there anywhere I can hear audio demos of the synths? I to my surprise can not find any audio clips of the modular 3 anywhere. Am I just missing them? Any links to dry audio examples of the synths on the scope platform would be great!
P.s. is there anywhere I can hear audio demos of the synths? I to my surprise can not find any audio clips of the modular 3 anywhere. Am I just missing them? Any links to dry audio examples of the synths on the scope platform would be great!
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Sounddesigner
- Posts: 1085
- Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:06 pm
I posted a link to flexor audio clips on the first page, it is a add on to Modular 3. Hifiboom has clips on his website also. heres the link again- http://www.adern.com/home/modules.php?n ... view&id=10Mike Goodwin wrote:Great feedback. I do value offline rendering though. I Simply do not always have time to sit through a 120 min mix. As for clicks and pops, I have had the fortune of having a computer that is free of them for over a year now. Sometimes sitting around for up to two hours when I could have it done in 5 minutes is just not a good feeling. For projects like that I will just my native applications. No big deal.
P.s. is there anywhere I can hear audio demos of the synths? I to my surprise can not find any audio clips of the modular 3 anywhere. Am I just missing them? Any links to dry audio examples of the synths on the scope platform would be great!
as I said click on my www button....Mike Goodwin wrote: P.s. is there anywhere I can hear audio demos of the synths? I to my surprise can not find any audio clips of the modular 3 anywhere. Am I just missing them? Any links to dry audio examples of the synths on the scope platform would be great!
http://www.hifiboom.6x.to/
then click review and then on the left side are the main cw synths, click on them and you get sound demos...
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Mike Goodwin
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Thanks sound designer and hfiboom. I did check out adern's wares but that is a little unfair as it is a major upgrade to the card. I am just blown away that there is not one set of audio demos for the modular three.
I took a listen at your site hifoboom. I went to the music page and listened to the newest stuff. The quality is very nice indeed. I was just hoping fore more "here is a boring patch being played with the filter sweeping" type demos. With no FX so one can hear exactly what is going on. I will go back to your site to listen to the links you have pointed out.
Thanks again,
P.s. It looks like I may have found a project card in my city for around $350. I would have to upgrade to 4.5 to get many of the features that I want but it is a step in the right direction.
I took a listen at your site hifoboom. I went to the music page and listened to the newest stuff. The quality is very nice indeed. I was just hoping fore more "here is a boring patch being played with the filter sweeping" type demos. With no FX so one can hear exactly what is going on. I will go back to your site to listen to the links you have pointed out.
Thanks again,
P.s. It looks like I may have found a project card in my city for around $350. I would have to upgrade to 4.5 to get many of the features that I want but it is a step in the right direction.
boring patch
one oscillator with resonance sweep.
http://hifiboom.webhop.org/Plugins/Prod ... filter.mp3
one oscillator with resonance sweep.
http://hifiboom.webhop.org/Plugins/Prod ... filter.mp3
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Sounddesigner
- Posts: 1085
- Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:06 pm
Modular 2/3 should come with that card without you buying 4.5, there is a redundancy in the upgrade with this one. Atleast it was in my case.Mike Goodwin wrote:
P.s. It looks like I may have found a project card in my city for around $350. I would have to upgrade to 4.5 to get many of the features that I want but it is a step in the right direction.
i would suggest that you focus on :
1) at leat one board with scope 4.5 so that you can get the additional plugins of 4.5. Than, when you you have the money, you will just have to buy a 15 dsp whatever plugins it has ... just aditional power. I have a 6 dsp board with almost all the plugins and the 15 dsp just increases the power. You can make your system grow little by little.
2) only one 6 dsp board. There are so many good plugins and flexibility that you will ask for 15 dsp boards later. As you can gather (cascade) 3 board, the more...the better !
3) do not throw away your money ... Soniccore and 3rd party plugins are quite cheap so it is sometimes better to buy a cheap 6/15 board and spend the extra money on 1,2,3, etc .... plugins that really correspond to your needs (synth, FX ..).
Jo
1) at leat one board with scope 4.5 so that you can get the additional plugins of 4.5. Than, when you you have the money, you will just have to buy a 15 dsp whatever plugins it has ... just aditional power. I have a 6 dsp board with almost all the plugins and the 15 dsp just increases the power. You can make your system grow little by little.
2) only one 6 dsp board. There are so many good plugins and flexibility that you will ask for 15 dsp boards later. As you can gather (cascade) 3 board, the more...the better !
3) do not throw away your money ... Soniccore and 3rd party plugins are quite cheap so it is sometimes better to buy a cheap 6/15 board and spend the extra money on 1,2,3, etc .... plugins that really correspond to your needs (synth, FX ..).
Jo
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Mike Goodwin
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That is exactly what I plan on doing. One question about 4.0 vs. 4.5 though, is there any other difference between the two other than the software that comes packaged with it? After listening to some of the sound examples on hifibooms site I was quite impressed. I am still a little worried that with the six DSP card I will get frustrated but it is all I can afford at the moment that it is the way to go. The only other problem I see with the cards is the fact that they are all PCI cards. I don't think we will be seeing support for these cards for much longer. But hell I guess you just keep the cards in there own computer. Well I'm quite excited. Now just to find a used project card!stardust wrote:In your case look for a used 6 DSP card with 4.x software.
And then save money for the 15 DSP board.
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hubird
The latter is said not to be trueMike Goodwin wrote:The only other problem I see with the cards is the fact that they are all PCI cards. I don't think we will be seeing support for these cards for much longer.
PCI - in combination with PCI-e - will be available for years and years, just like you can still buy ISA boards
yep, i think so too.hubird wrote:The latter is said not to be trueMike Goodwin wrote:The only other problem I see with the cards is the fact that they are all PCI cards. I don't think we will be seeing support for these cards for much longer.
PCI - in combination with PCI-e - will be available for years and years, just like you can still buy ISA boards
pci wont be the problem for the next years
i bought this year my third scope card
it was a bundle with professional scope card and A16.
and i still think it was the investment worth
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Mike Goodwin
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:42 am
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Ok folks just in case anyone reads this....... I already posted in the purchase section of the forum but hey can't hurt.
Im looking for a used Scope Project card.
Thanks for all the help. The the company that bought Scope owe a lot to this forum. I would not be looking to invest into the system if there was little support here. It is a little scary when a platform as little talked about as Scope is in transition. But the folks here gave me the peace of mind to jump into it. Now I am very excited and can't wait to get a scope card into my studio.
Im looking for a used Scope Project card.
Thanks for all the help. The the company that bought Scope owe a lot to this forum. I would not be looking to invest into the system if there was little support here. It is a little scary when a platform as little talked about as Scope is in transition. But the folks here gave me the peace of mind to jump into it. Now I am very excited and can't wait to get a scope card into my studio.
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hubird
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chriskorff
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:09 am
