A16 Ultra Faulty

[AudioDan]

Hi,
I have discussed this briefly in a previous post but nothing was ever resolved.
I have had an A16 Ultra now for about 2 and a half years during which it was treated extremely well. After moving house a couple of months ago I hooked the unit up and turned it on. I noticed after a couple of mintues that the Master Sync LED had not turned from orange to green.
After going through all my connections and swapping cables everywhere I unhooked everything but the power supply and tried booting the unit in Master Sync mode (I usually use it in Z-Link Sync mode). The unit still wouldn't boot. Instead of the usual 'sizzling' sound of the input LED's flashing on momentarily the Master Sync LED just stayed orange. The Samplerate light did turn on and the sample rate could be changed, but the A16 Ultra would not respond to input or output of either analog or digital audio. No metering and no sound. ADAT outputs would not light up either.
I confirmed that the PSU was not the problem and after getting no useful information from SonicCore I took the unit to a repair centre locally. Coincidentally at the time I put mine in for repair someone else had dropped their A16 Ultra to the same repair centre with similar problems as well as one extra, which was that the Master Sync LED wouldn't light up at all.
The repair centre handed the unit back to me having had it running for a day or so in Master mode with 'no problems'. I subsequently took it home and plugged it all back together. It stayed working for about half an hour. ( $115 repair for half an hour operation....not too cost effective)
After taking my A16 Ultra back to the repair centre and leaving it there for a couple of weeks I was told that neither my unit or the other that was left there could be repaired.
Having hooked up my brand new MOTU 2408 MkIII a couple of weeks ago and enjoying using that, I thought I'd give myself a chuckle and turned on my A16 Ultra. This time it booted. But I knew better than this. I connected the Z-Link connector to my Creamware cards that were by now banished to my backup 'knock-around' computer. I rebooted the A16 Ultra and the Master Sync LED stayed orange.
After a few hunches and some futher testing I have figured out that trying to boot the unit with any kind of external Sync input affects its boot up, but Z-Link is the worst. After connecting with Z-link the unit may not boot for days.
Now....this to me says faulty capacitor somewhere in the sync input path - if there is such a thing - but the repair centre told me they had replaced a number of suspect capacitors as a precaution so if there was such a faulty cap then I would have thought it was replaced.
I have noticed at least one other user on the forum that has had a similar problem, but I'm wondering if anyone has had a solution? Has anybody had this problem and actually had it rectified by either a local repair centre or by Creamware/SonicCore?
Thanks,

AudioDan

[astroman]

don't have an Ultra myself, but if you suspect the 'initial reset cap'... this is a very small item, which is not considered suspective at all usually.
believe it or not, but the very first Apple machine with slots (the Macintosh II) had exactly same problem.
once the machine was running, you couldn't power-on-reset it anymore. If it crashed you had to disconnect it from power for at least overnight
next morning it would continue... until the next crash... then it would take another day off

cheers, Tom

[Bifop]

Audiodan, it seems to me like an aging behaviour from this unit....
Some A16 Ultra age pretty bad it seems. In a studio I work for, they have an A 16Ultra that takes 15 minutes to warm up and then syncs. I sold an A16 Ultra (coming from the same batch) to a friend 2 years ago and he told me recently his unit was starting to act funny as well.
It's not the power supply because they both have been replaced with a brand new.
Some weak capacitor dying ? The heat ?
Fortunately, I think SonicCore can fix them.

[AudioDan]

Hi Bifop & astroman,
Thanks for the replies. Any information helps. The unfortunate thing for me is that I'm in Australia and it's going to be a mighty expensive exercise to get my out-of-warranty A16 Ultra over to SonicCore (I'm not even sure where it would need to go...Germany?) and then have repairs done to it and have it freighted back. I beleive I would end up at the very least $600 out of pocket and there'd really be no guarantee that the thing would either get there or back to me. I can't really afford the risk. I'm just trying to gather more information to try a different repairer locally who seemed quite keen to give it a go.
Unfortunately my Creamware gear has essentially become a novelty item in my backup computer. I'd love to be able to give it more credit than that, but my old backup is the only computer I have left that will still run the cards properly (ie. switch off HT and ACPI and maybe XTC will run properly). As it is I only use my Luna II EX for basic "sound card" functionality while my 14 DSP booster another Luna II EX and a Sync Plate sit in a box somewhere in my room. I'd love to have a good spare 16 channel ADAT converter available, but it's very low on my list of priorities right now. If I can get the A16 Ultra fixed locally then great, but elsewise it will remain a glorified rack-face.
Sorry about the gloominess.
Cheers,

AudioDan

[garyb]

no it's not that expensive. i would NEVER give it to a local shop to fix! it must go back to SoniCore, who can fix it. first, however, get a HIGH quality firewire cable and retest. if tthat doesn't work, contact S/C for an RMA.......

[AudioDan]

Hi garyb,
The local 'shop' is actually the official repair centre in Australia for Roland (and Roland off-shoots) Zoom, Yorkville, M-Audio, Alesis etc etc. the list goes on. The other guy who I'm thinking of has been the official repairer for any gear coming through the now ex-importer of Creamware. I couldn't bare to hand my gear over to anyone whom I thought was not up to the task. I just can't justify the expense of getting the thing back to SonicCore when it's really now just a backup device. Maybe when I have some spare money sitting around...
Oh, and in regards to the firewire cable. I'm using the same cables as I always have with no problems, and what's more I have tried it with different one which ARE much higher quality. However when the unit won't boot becauase it has word clock incoming to sync to......? I seriously doubt it's the firewire cable.
Cheers,

AudioDan

[hubird]

no, it can't be that expensive, nonsense

[AudioDan]

hubird,
Have you priced up freight in Australia? Have you tried doing some price comparisons of music products in Australia to the rest of the world?

* M-Audio Project Mix US$1599.99 rrp

* On current exchange rates that should translate to AU$1769.72. Let's say AU$1800 including the shipping.

* Actual Australian retail price AU$3499

Although this isn't to do with the freight it is a fine example of how Australians are getting bent over all the time on prices of products from overseas, and the craziness DOES carry over to freight charges. In the US and the Europe I'm sure it's quite cheap to get things freighted around, but here it costs a small fortune. (So not "nonsene").
Cheers,

AudioDan

[hubird]

you will be right then, it amazes me tho. sorry

[kyunghwee]

I've had a similar problem with my A16 Ultra...all the sync options remaining red for a very long time when first turned on even as the master. At the same time, my Scope card was acting funky so I had to ship both to Creamware/SonicCore Germany for repair.
Even from shipping from US, it costed me almost as much to ship as to repair so I can somewhat understand your frustration. If I recall, it costed me over $200 just for shipping...and repair cost in euros, that's another story although now looking back, euros were a lot cheaper then it is now.
Since repair, I haven't had a chance to use A16 Ultra much...it took a while to get'em repaired so I had to learn to cope without them for a while and perhaps gotten too used to it! But it is working perfectly well right now. I'm not sure exactly what they did or how extensive the repair was but I'm just glad to have it back working since Scope system is my main setup.
Scope card issue was a completely different story and I'll spare you guys for another time on that one.

[AudioDan]

Hi kyunghwee,
I was hoping I would spark you attention on this because it was your thread I had discussed this on previously. Thanks for responding. It's a bit of a shame that SonicCore didn't tell you what went wrong or how it was fixed, but they can't deny that they've seen and repaired the problem now so if I hit them up with the problem again, they might be willing to release some kind of information to a repair centre here. Thanks for the confirmation on that freight thing too. Did you figure out how much they ended up charging for the repair?
And yes! I agree, learning to move on for me has been difficult and a little bitter as I would have loved for my main audio system to have remained Creamware, but now that I have moved into the plebian territories of MOTU PCI, I feel as if I have a very functional, very well supported system that will remain usable and expandable for years to come. It's a new feeling...a little exciting actually.

Cheers,

AudioDan

[garyb]

well, depending on how you ship, customs could be a problem. there is a correct way to do it when sending out repairs so that you don't get charged duty on your own gear. after that, the shipping itself is not that much, at least in the usa. it shouldn't be much more than $80 both ways to ship by air.

on the issue of the cable, i just suggested trying another because on a rare occasion, they can fail. because your repair tech(yes, i know they're trustworthy, i didn't think you were stupid. i know that the tech with the documentation is the most effective.) had it working, so maybe it's the cable. stupid, i know, but if a cable fixed the problem, then happy days! the reason i mentioned a GOOD cable is because it seems that not all firewire connectors are the same, and i have seen strange behavior from some generic cables because of poorly fitting connectors. this is not necessarily the cable's fault or the card's, but the combination of connectors....

[AudioDan]

Hi garyb,
I appreciate you suggestions. I have certainly been a victim, on countless occasions, of cables either suddenly failing, or inexplicably not working from first connection. Try them on something else and they work fine, and try a different cable on the the same piece of equipment and it too works fine. It's these issues which I will tend to isolate and address before anything else.

$80 (US I'm assuming) seems quite conservative given what I know of Australian shipping costs. I would of course have to insure the unit for the replacement cost - AU$1699 (not that it's even being brought into the country any more) and hence I would estimate the cost to be between $150 - $200 one way. I hadn't even considered the issue of import tax.....
It sounds as though the repair would cost around the same in AU$. All told I could easily get another UAD-1 for that price and not to mention, for a couple of hundred dollars more I could get a second expansion for my MOTU 2408 system. I've sent SonicCore a second email requesting repair information now that we have a documented case in this thread of these symptoms being successfully rectified. (thanks again kyunghwee!!) SonicCore cannot deny anymore that they've seen or repaired the problem. The only obstacle left will be whether they tell me it's not repairable using locally sourceable parts. If this is the response then the unit will finally become a rack face until I need to move it.

Cheers,

AudioDan

[garyb]

well, the post office is much cheaper than a service like UPS, DHL or fedex when it comes to international shipping. i'm sure australian post is the same.

it's too bad you've had a bad experience, but other brands have problems sometimes too. many of those must be sent to the factory for repair in order to get things fixed right(because only the manufacturer has the proper parts and documentation), so that's the danger of something made in another country by a small company, but you don't need me telling you such things so i'll pipe down.... even if you decide to sell it "as is" on ebay or something, drop a line. how are the ADAT i/os working?

[AudioDan]

Yeah I know. Sometimes it's things you really wouldn't expect. Such as: in the shop where I work, we got a much higher percentage of failures from Mackie mixers than Behringers.
I guess I just get a bit disappointed having bought a high quality German-made product and seemingly for no reason at all it just stops working. I could understand it if I had been rough with it or treated it badly, but it was quite the opposite. Mean while, Chinese-made products that I've had longer, used far more and not treated well at all have no problems whatsoever.
If, however, it had been just this one bad experience I'd be more forgiving, but after the string of unresolved issues I've had with Creamware gear which can be attributed entirely to the lack of driver and software updates, this is just the icing on the crap-cake.

I'm currently trying to test ADAT functionality, but for now the unit won't boot, so no joy yet.

Cheers,

AudioDan

[garyb]

ok, another dumb question, have you put a meter on the chinese made power supply?

no problem whatsoever with drivers here......

[AudioDan]

Yeah,
I metnioned that in passing in the first post on this thread. The PSU is confirmed to be working just fine unloaded and under load.
I refer to the drivers in that XTC especially does not support multi-thread processing. I specifically bought a 14 DSP booster to spec out my system for XTC mode - the way I want to work - and after a couple of months of screwing around with settings and .ini files, and tearing my hair out, Creamware grudgingly told me that XTC was not compatible with multi-processor machines. But that was only when I had the Australian importer ask the question (again, some things only happen because I work in a music shop and hence have 'contacts'). Having also just bought a Dual Xeon PC for my main audio computer, that was a bit of a blow.
In the end, of course, the Dual Xeon machine and Nuendo won out over XTC mode and so I bitterly switched back to SFP mode which is of far less use to me than XTC. Pretty soon the 14 DSP booster was ousted to make way for two UAD-1's and the second Luna was removed to free up resources for a Powercore Firewire. Had XTC worked on my computer and kept working on computers to come I probably would never have bought the UAD's or the PowerCore. I certainly don't regret my decision. I've said it before but I think Creamware made a really bad decision when they said that XTC was a dead technology. I would imagine that the majority of Universal Audio's money is derived now from the same concept. TC Electronic makes a packet, Focusrite, Waves....Solid State Logic condescended to grace us with their pitch into the market, and let's not forget...the great "industry standard", the revered and astronomically over-rate, the SM-58 of the DAW industry, Protools TDM / HD. All based around the same concept. Even EMU a company destroyed and resurrected by the most boring, domestic-based 'sound-card' companies in the world, now enjoys a steady income and growing respect for their contribution to the DSP hosted VST industry.
I can certainly see the advantages of the SFP environment. Hell! I've used it every day for the past two years, but I really think Creamware missed the boat on a massive income market that they had in the palm of their hand. If only they had supported the product better...
Although I've now gone WAY off-topic I suppose my point is that I waited and waited and waited for Creamware to release a new driver to make XTC work on my machine, but it never came. I can't wait forever, I want to make music, and so instead I was forced to replace what was quite an expensive setup (for me) with other things (also expensive). Hence, bad experience...
The A16 Ultra was not something I ever expected to break down, but as I said it really completed my bad experience with Creamware.
Still no joy with booting the A16 Ultra. I think it will have to wait a few days.

Cheers,

AudioDan

[AudioDan]

Oh, and bye the way,
Just looking back through the forum, I'm noticing an increasing number of people complaining of 'clicks and crackles' and 'wave driver recording problems' and issues which to me say, the number of mainboards and chipset controllers that are still useable with Scope cards is rapidly dwindling. I've seen people having to revert back to Win98 to keep their Scope cards working!!! A ten year old OS! And a highly unstable one at that. A lot of people are looking for problems in .ini files and windows audio drivers, and settings in their chosing recording software, when in many cases the issue is actually 64bit DUAL CORE CPU's, new memory controller hubs, melding of I/O controller hub functions into a unified chip instead of numerous controllers all doing their own job. The serious lack of PCI slots on motherboards now means that IRQ sharing often becomes unavoidable. I see M-Audio and MOTU move their drivers from a point where IRQ sharing is virtually catastrophic to being a standard and very functional thing. One simply cannot avoid, at this point, setting up a new computer with any REAL processing power, that is not dual something....HT, dual core, not to mention quad core. None of these functions had really been taken into acccount when the last set of drivers was released. There's only so long a company can ride a one good driver release.

Not all of it however can be attributed to Creamware or their drivers. I do notice as time moves on, that with the advent of new types of expansion slots, and motherboard companies trying to keep a range if I/O capabalities ie. PCI32 + PCI-X + PCIe on single motherboards, the resources available to each bus has become seriously depleted. I built a new Dual Xeon machine a while ago using an iWill DH800 motherboard (used by Carillon) and it was the biggest lemon of a board I've ever encountered. The short story is that the motherboard allocated pathetically low resources to either the PCI32 or the PCI-X slots and hence, the moment I tried to load up either my UAD cards, or my Powercore, clicking and crackling would start, and very soon I'd get a 'PCI Overflow' message from Scope followed by some kind of reference to 'low PCI resources from the UAD's.
I switched directly back to my Asus PC-DL Deluxe and the problems disappeared. The reason I treid to swap the motherboard was because I was having issues at the time with the system locking up inexplicably after a few minutes of operation. In the end it turned out to be a faulty power supply and so my PC-DL ran happily for the next year and a half, until through my own stupidity I managed to fry it while changing cards in slots.
It's replacement is another Asus serverboard with Dual Core Dual Xeon processors, but there is only one PCI32 slot and it shares an IRQ with both the PCIe 8x and the PCIe16x. Hot machine, but immediately the sharing of IRQ's between the Scope card and the Grphics card becomes an issue. The other issue that has arisen is that because of poorly allocated resources to the three PCI-X slots, changing parameters of UAD-based plugins can cause distortion, pauses, jitters and even complete lockups.
All of this is indicates that just because one spends more money on a more professional motherboard, doesn't mean that the motherboard will have the resources and capabilities that the PCI cards need to do their job.
Hence, not totally Creamware's fault...but new driver now and then woudn't go astray.

Cheers,

AudioDan

[garyb]

and the hardware manufacturer must implement properly as well...

[AudioDan]

Conclusion?
SonicCore refuse to "publish" the technical diagrams that would allow the unit to be repaired locally. Intereting that I have a couple of different (much more expensive) devices that come with their block and circuit diagrams printed in their manual SO THAT THEY CAN BE REPAIRED LOCALLY!!! I detailed to SonicCore that I cannot justify or afford to return my A16 Ultra to them to be repaired, but this was the only solution they offered me.
I understand the need to protect the company's product, but I can't tell you how little interest I have in copying and mass producing the A16 Ultra. I just want mine to work so that I can keep making music. As it is I've found the unit to be easily replaceable, and so it will remain a rack-face till I need to put something else in it's place.
I'm sorry to say that my respect for Creamware and its off-shoots is at an all-time low.
Better luck to the rest of you who have invested your time and money in this product.

Cheers,

AudioDan