God is not great: How religion poisons everthing

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:29 am

stardust wrote:
BingoTheClowno wrote:
stardust wrote: Nothing. As I said before. It does not matter. No impact. No significance.
You don't give a flying fuck in other words.
Hmm I would not use these words. But It describes vulgarly my disinterest for the atheistic irrelevance in practical terms.

However your actions are proving the opposite (I alege based on your posts, just in case you want to go back to the alege argument).

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:38 am

stardust wrote:You wish
This is theoretical discussion here.
There is no practical impact as long as there is noone convinced of the thesis.
Do you agree ?

Would you agree that I am no one?

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:39 am

Kensugoro, You seem to want it to end. In several posts you mentioned "I think this is ending".

I would like to point out that in Japan, the best possible outcome of a baseball game is a tie. We don't like that here. I am never going to say oh well I should get along with them so let's have a compromise and take evolution out of half the schools. That is no good. I am never going to be pragmatic and say I don't care about God being mentioned on currency or say that the bible being sworn on in the courtroom is good. I would swear on the bible only because I am forced to by law, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be very angry about it. These are little obvious things that most of us can agree on but this is the tip of the iceberg. The abortion issue and other sexual issues are not minor complaints with the church. The way the church is trying to change United States laws is despicable.

To accept god without the bible and the church, is a great step in the correct direction guys, yet you are not a part of the church, nor would the church like you to be saying these things, so I don't see why you are even defending them. You have that one last vestige of god above you. All you need to do is give it up and free your minds.

kensuguro wrote:

You don't want to get caught up in trying to break each other's credibility to shut the guy up. That's pretty much the end of any discussion.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:03 pm

stardust wrote:
BingoTheClowno wrote:
stardust wrote:You wish
This is theoretical discussion here.
There is no practical impact as long as there is noone convinced of the thesis.
Do you agree ?
Would you agree that I am no one?
you were in that before so growth rate is zero.
At least you bravely stood your ground.

One you're changing the subject, two, wtf are you talking about? What growth rate, my beard's, while I'm sitting here responding to your juvenile games? Please stop being vague. It only makes you look like you're in a possession of a divine secret.

manfriday · Post by **manfriday** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:08 pm

No.

You should look into the life of Pope John Paul II, and see how this horrible "religion" stuff played a role in the fall of the Soviet Union. That was the reason the assaination attempt was made on Pope John Paul, by the way.. He was a very outspoken critic of communism, and the soviet union hired Mahmet to put an end to him.

And just look at how people thrived and prospered under atheist communism. Boy.. Sure do wish we were all more like that huh? Those guys are real humanitarians. Far better than those horrib le religous folks!

All sorts of atrocities have been commited by atheist commies, from the communist Soviet Union killing of millions of it's own citizens, to communist china and the atrocities against budhist monks in mongolia.
And to think.. they managed to do all these things WITHOUT god!
Hey! Who needs religion to commit atrocities when you have good old fashioned human ingenuity!

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:26 pm

stardust wrote: Bingo, same subject (atheism irrelevance) and no beard.
You went in alone and you will go out alone. So the growth rate is zero.
Or do you think you did win some friends ?

Yes. You.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:28 pm

manfriday wrote:
No.
You should look into the life of Pope John Paul II, and see how this horrible "religion" stuff played a role in the fall of the Soviet Union. That was the reason the assaination attempt was made on Pope John Paul, by the way.. He was a very outspoken critic of communism, and the soviet union hired Mahmet to put an end to him.

And just look at how people thrived and prospered under atheist communism. Boy.. Sure do wish we were all more like that huh? Those guys are real humanitarians. Far better than those horrib le religous folks!

All sorts of atrocities have been commited by atheist commies, from the communist Soviet Union killing of millions of it's own citizens, to communist china and the atrocities against budhist monks in mongolia.
And to think.. they managed to do all these things WITHOUT god!
Hey! Who needs religion to commit atrocities when you have good old fashioned human ingenuity!

Again, let me use gary's favorite quote, "whom can you blame in car accident, the car or the driver of the car".

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:28 pm

If you don't agree with the dogma, they try to shut you up. Yes, he did win a friend which is me. I liked his point of view and original subject post. I don't find it offensive, on the contrary, it is refreshing.

stardust wrote: Bingo, same subject (atheism irrelevance) and no beard.
You went in alone and you will go out alone. So the growth rate is zero.
Or do you think you did win some friends ?

Post by **hubird** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:38 pm

stardust wrote:
BingoTheClowno wrote:
stardust wrote: Nothing. As I said before. It does not matter. No impact. No significance.
You don't give a flying fuck in other words.
Hmm I would not use these words. But It describes vulgarly my disinterest for the atheistic irrelevance in practical terms.

this is pure art, visually I mean

manfriday · Post by **manfriday** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:50 pm

Again, let me use gary's favorite quote, "whom can you blame in car accident, the car or the driver of the car".

can you clarify your point at all? Because that sounds like a darn good argument for my side.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:03 pm

stardust wrote:
BingoTheClowno wrote:
stardust wrote:
Or do you think you did win some friends ?
Yes. You.
Are you sure

Why, you don't tolerate atheists? You're not a bigot, are you?

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:05 pm

manfriday wrote:
Again, let me use gary's favorite quote, "whom can you blame in car accident, the car or the driver of the car".
can you clarify your point at all? Because that sounds like a darn good argument for my side.

Follow your instincts.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:19 pm

braincell wrote:If you don't agree with the dogma, they try to shut you up. Yes, he did win a friend which is me. I liked his point of view and original subject post. I don't find it offensive, on the contrary, it is refreshing.

stardust wrote: Bingo, same subject (atheism irrelevance) and no beard.
You went in alone and you will go out alone. So the growth rate is zero.
Or do you think you did win some friends ?

Yes, I appreciate that, your frienship was a huge consolation to me.

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:04 pm

manfriday wrote: All sorts of atrocities have been commited by atheist commies, from the communist Soviet Union killing of millions of it's own citizens, to communist china and the atrocities against budhist monks in mongolia.
And to think.. they managed to do all these things WITHOUT god!
Hey! Who needs religion to commit atrocities when you have good old fashioned human ingenuity!

An absolute truth is enough, indeed.

Me$$iah · Post by **Me$$iah** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:06 pm

garyb wrote:who says god has to meet your standard of logic?

So can we agree that an 'omni'god is illogical

its the old burrito question again.

Also:
the evil commie athiests mentioned, yes, Stalin killed a lot of people. But this was not because he was an athiest. It was because he was a totallitarian. It just so happened he was an athiest. Lack of religion wasnt the reason to kill
Compare this to, say, the crusaders, they killed purely because of religion.
There is a difference.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:36 pm

BingoTheClowno wrote:
darkrezin wrote:Music is not entertainment, it is a way of life.

Existence to me is a lot more than eating, shitting, fucking and sleeping. If that's all it means to you then that's fine, but you really should try to understand that it's not like that for everyone else.
So the existence to you is "eating, shitting, cleaning yourself, fucking, sleeping" and indulging in grand delusions of magnanimous gods in seventh heaven?

Hey you owe me a new keyboard because I spat my coffee out laughing. What a strange view of the world you have.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I really don't spend my time asking God to smite my enemies and to reserve me a ticket to heaven. I spend my time helping people, experiencing art and reading philosophy, creating things that might make a difference to people, exercising my mind in general.

Life can be a complex, deep, rewarding experience if you want it to be. It doesn't have to be a utilitarian world of extreme polarities and dogma.

The petty bickering in this thread is really starting to boggle the mind. I'm not entirely sure of what is motivating you and what you hope to achieve. Why don't you and Mr.Cell just get a room and be done with it? You can even pretend that us cowardly spiritual folk don't exist

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:40 pm

Me$$iah wrote: the evil commie athiests mentioned, yes, Stalin killed a lot of people. But this was not because he was an athiest. It was because he was a totallitarian. It just so happened he was an athiest. Lack of religion wasnt the reason to kill
Compare this to, say, the crusaders, they killed purely because of religion.
There is a difference.

No argument with the communism thing, but regarding the crusaders - big assumption here, sorry. Crusaders were very much in pursuit of wealth and power. The governments of their countries were also after wealth and power. Actually after a while the governments got rather pissed off with the crusaders because they started getting way too rich and powerful for their liking.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:03 pm

braincell wrote:The way the church is trying to change United States laws is despicable.

To accept god without the bible and the church, is a great step in the correct direction guys, yet you are not a part of the church, nor would the church like you to be saying these things, so I don't see why you are even defending them. You have that one last vestige of god above you. All you need to do is give it up and free your minds.

Your issue is with the state and the government. I agree that this is a very silly manoevre. True faith cannot be destroyed by a theory such as evolution so in my view there is nothing to be feared by teaching it.

Yes it is a problem that people take the bible dogmatically literally. And yes there's also a severe problem that people take parts that are convenient to them, and ignore other parts which are just as, if not more important. This is the nature of man, limited intelligence and the temptation to cling to convenient morsels of 'wisdom'. Atheists tend to fall into the same traps... they ignore the parts of spiritual teaching which are universally beneficial, and instead concentrate on things that bother them.

The end result of the creationism debate is that it creates divisions and hatred in society, and the government continues to maintain and exert power. It's divide and rule again, an age old technique. Keeping the population entangled in petty squabbles leaves your government free to go around the world killing people they don't like.

Spiritual teachings are complex and sometimes self-contradictory for a very good reason. Life is a complex existence, and the reason for living is to unravel the mysteries yourself. If the answers were handed to you on a convenient platter, there would be nothing to live for.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:29 pm

Let's not argue about the miracles now because obviously you guys do not agree with most people on this issue, however the main miracle is god himself. That he exists. This is also just as silly as all the other things in the bible.

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:43 pm

i like how everybody thinks everybody else should have the same mindset, regardless of where he is geographically set.

culture shouldnt apply, neither tradition. just pure fact.

and i believe that is a fact.