you can let your breath out now...

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:06 pm

irrelevance wrote: An stdm like cable is a great idea but I would have thought that there need to be some kind of reclocking to synchronise the data as the pcie would be running alot faster, thus the benifit might be lost.

XTC could be made better by allowing project configuration while the host is running but mabye keeping the asio i/o locked. To have mixers that load in a vsti shell would be more user freindly. Then again(thinking aloud here) XTC shouldn't have to be configured at all, it should work "out of the box" so to speak.

I don't think there would be any difficulties STDM-ing a PCI and a PCIe card. The hardware runs on it's own clock, but perhaps there would be a problem or bottleneck when using faster SHARCs.

I too would love to see some improvements in XTC-mode. Some of the things you mention here are only limited by the lack of inputs/outputs on the VST-shell.

valis · Post by **valis** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:19 pm

hubird wrote:Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes another year to see something really new on the shelves.

I agree, if not even longer. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to see a Scope 5.0 release for the current hardware before we see next gen stuff, since the platform already exists.

Post by **garyb** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:31 pm

duuuh.

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:35 pm

and maybe a waldorf plug-in....

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:44 am

valis wrote:
hubird wrote:Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes another year to see something really new on the shelves.
I agree, if not even longer. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to see a Scope 5.0 release for the current hardware before we see next gen stuff, since the platform already exists.

More than a year ?
Then, they're dead. Dual core, dual dual cores, Quad core, dual quad cores etc.... Not to rain on the parade but who excepted a few dsp diehard fans, will buy a new scope platform (and certainly not for cheap) when the power of native systems is taking off in such magnitude ? I won't.
It ain't Protools, it's not bolted enough to the current software either (xtc doesn't totally cut it).
You guys are all going to sell all your scope investments for the new one ?
Thousands of native systems adopters will run to buy a dsp platform that doesn't collaborate with anything but itself in the box...
How many of you have bought the warp reverb that is so good you can't live without ?...
Sorry guys, I hope to be blown off by the future announcements, but I have doubts on the time frame and the market profit to be done at this moment in time. Hope it's not too late.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:58 am

Bifop wrote:...How many of you have bought the warp reverb that is so good you can't live without ?...
..., but I have doubts on the time frame and the market profit to be done at this moment in time. Hope it's not too late.

I have - for a ridiculuously low price - my offer still stands: 498 Euro for the Hall...

is it allowed to be honest ?
98% of those who downloaded the P100 demo are just plain stupid.
as they didn't purchase it ... 48 Euro for the Reverb plus 48 Euro the Chorus Delay ... go figure yourself
maybe it's indeed time to rethink market profit...

if 100 units were sold (at a given time), that also means that it was downloaded 5000 times, assuming a 2% 'success rate' (as reported).

this is all hot air and waffling - people complain they didn't get one of the last Prodyssey ASBs for the sellout price, accompagnied by Anna's bitter-sweet joking 'congrats, you've got a collector's item, only a handful were made...

there is no problem in native competion - in all those years the NI FM8 finally made it to equal a 10 year old system - it doesn't outperform it, it doesn't smoke it - it's just on par. And it comes with a hefty CPU hog, too

From the Liquid Channel to SSL Duende, one DSP release after the other, with CrystalCore technology (as applied by Fairlight) native processing hasn't even got a chance to compete - and I really mean not a chance in hell.
It is stuck in it's sh*tty software environment called 'Operating System', we all know about the huuughe improvements BigBill and BigSteven released recently

Innovation needs customers, the more are willing to pay, the less it will cost
but it will neverbecome a mass market item - what for, and with what reasoning ? what target group ?

cheers, Tom

valis · Post by **valis** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:59 am

Dual Core? MUlticore?

Any issues that Scope has with current multicore chip implementations are worked around by buying a compatible chipset. I have used Scope on SMP rigs for years now (as of 2.04 & stable as of 3.x).

As for next gen, I would rather have a nice modern stable system in a year's time than some hack thrown together in a few months time to keep the 'market' happy.

Market realities exist for sure, but I think that the ups & downs of CW so far has hopefully taught them what their strengths are (the Scope core system) and what areas it needs to be improved on (easily seen in this thread for example). The realities of a new development team (in India), changes in the sharc chips (they're code compatible but that says nothing about direct porting of code and sharing the hardware with older generation chips), newer interconnect technologies (PCIe/Firewire) and etc mean that there's more to be engineered than just ramping up clockspeed to gain performance.

Anyway we've been hearing since before the days of the P4 how the Scope system is golng to be blown away by the next cpu from amd/intel, and how speed gains there make Scope systems irrelevent. I don't think anyone would deny there is a certain measure of truth in that assessment, but chicken little predictions about the dire state of the platform are overstating the case a bit imo. I base my opinion on observing that the planetz userbase is still climbing and 3rd party devs are still active (not just free sdk users).

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:14 am

astroman wrote:
Bifop wrote: is it allowed to be honest ?
98% of those who downloaded the P100 demo are just plain stupid.
as they didn't purchase it ... 48 Euro for the Reverb plus 48 Euro the Chorus Delay ... go figure yourself
maybe it's indeed time to rethink market profit...
if 100 units were sold (at a given time), that also means that it was downloaded 5000 times, assuming a 2% 'success rate' (as reported).

thats why I think bundling the higher end plug-ins with a card will be much better way to go....
look if warp sells 100 x 99, he gets 9900, what isn`t that much if you wanna live from this and concentrate on developing that stuff and put much effort and time into it....(maybe he is selling some more licenses over the time, but the amount will drop from day of release)

If a card is 700€ and you add f.e. for the warp reverbs by default, calculating 40€....
and sell 3000 cards over a time period, this will result in an amount of 3000x40 = 120000

and if a card is 740 or 700 really does not matter. But it will attract more people to buy that card, because it comes with high class effects right out of the box....

bundling would have three advantages
- board manufacturer ( in this case SonicCore) advantage would be to attract more people to buy that card. better included plug-ins lead to higher selling rate of the card itself
- The users advantage is to get the plug-in much cheaper, as if buying it as an additional device..
- And the plug-in developers advantage is to get more money and more continuesly with every sold board.

The only one that has a disadvantage may be the one that buys such an card but don`t need the reverb...
But who does buy an audio card and do not want a high class fx.

Of course not every plug-in should be bundled but a few high class stuff will make a platform more attractive for customers...
So the real task is to carfully select which plug-ins are bundled and which not.

only an concept idea

firubbi · Post by **firubbi** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:54 am

Congratulation to Sonic Core.
hope everything will go right way

thanks

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:11 am

hifiboom wrote:...
thats why I think bundling the higher end plug-ins with a card will be much better way to go....
look if warp sells 100 x 99, he gets ...

actually it's not the main point in this context what he gets - he made a reasonable price based on a reasonable estimation of possible sales
The only thing that was not reasonable was the reaction of the 'customer base'

The reverb was a steal at that price, and (good) plate and chorus-delay algorithms are among the most used - there was no competition, the device was well known (estimated by downloads and 'reviews'), so give me one good reason why it didn't sell a thoudand copies in 3 month ...

don't misunderstand me - the P100 is just an example, you will find the same pattern with every device that isn't part of a bundle.
No problem, basically...
if there wouldn't be a wishlist from here to the moon every couple of month what CWA or the 3rd parties are supposed to do to 'stay in business'
LMAO - pardon me, what business ???

THAT is the main problem to be solved, so to say

cheers, Tom

Post by **garyb** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:49 am

true!
people are stupid sleeping on this stuff.
most engineers( the people capable of appreciating this platfoerm because they have a clue about how gear works and how good gear sounds) are superstitious and it's hard to get their attention. likewise for the "musicians", most of them hiding their laziness to learn something vital to their happiness with "i don't want to be an engineer, i just want to make music", but still using engineer's tools.

however, those who manage to awaken from the dream world made by some sales machine know that the native part is really only useful because of the dsp part.

JMHO.

emzee · Post by **emzee** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:18 am

Nice to see Creamware go to someone who appreciates it. Guys, if you need free business advice, just head over here....

Best wishes for your (ad)ventures .... CW Frank ......... now known as ID Frank...

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:34 pm

garyb wrote:true!

however, those who manage to awaken from the dream world made by some sales machine know that the native part is really only useful because of the dsp part.

JMHO.

What is this BS supposed to really mean ?

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:48 pm

it means that you shouldn't believe any BS spread by either marketing departments or self proclaimed 'experts'...
Modern CPUs actually have hardware DSP cores

cheers, Tom

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:37 pm

Scope DSP is not going to disappear. We're using the same cards and chips from six or seven years ago, and look how far they've been able to stretch the platform. We've gone from EZSynth and "RealVerb" (or whatever that old funky thing that came with Pulsar 1.0 was) to MiniMax, P100, and BX_Digital. On the same cards!

Now, imagine if CWA/InDSP came out with brand-new, PCI-E chips running clock speeds 10x+ the speed of the current chips. Scope would instantly be extremely competitive again.

If they play their cards right and make it really hip and cool (and cheap enough for the masses), it could be HOT.

My 2c....

Shayne

loydb · Post by **loydb** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:00 pm

I'm speccing out my next DAW, and really want to go slot-based for lower latency. The Pro 4.5 looks nice, but whatever I get is going to *have* to be 64-bit, multi-core, Vista capable -- the attraction of 16G of RAM for my orchestral sample libs is simply too important to ignore.

I came to this forum to get an overview of the current state of Scope. Hopefully they'll have some new announcements between now and the end of the year (when I plan to buy -- gotta see Vista SP1 before I'll consider it seriously).

loyd

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:19 pm

As much as we'd all love to see new upgrades and/or hardware, I wouldn't count on it within the next year. I have no inside info on the matter, so these my own impressions, nothing more...

bosone · Post by **bosone** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:20 pm

the timeline for an hardware upgrade is becoming longer and longer...

firubbi · Post by **firubbi** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:29 am

2 years

firubbi · Post by **firubbi** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:58 am

hamm... its nothing wrong with SC....we few ppl here are waiting for next gen card or booster. so SC will do what brings business.