Cubase timing (midi clk, etc) revisited

[UsedManateeSalesman]

Folks,

Well after messing with the internal clock settings in, for example the Prodyssey for delay setting, I've come to the conclusion that setting it to something "pretty close" that sounds synced is unacceptable. At first, I was advised that it is a ULLI issue that on very small sample sizes (I'm at 2.9ms @ 44.1) the midi sync is updating too often, or something, and so it forces all matter of crap to happen if you use the EXT midi clock to sync delays.

Watching the midi clock that is coming in, that is no wonder. It's a mess. After years of using Cubase, I think I finally am in a situation to realize why people are constantly complaining about its timing! I place the blame on Cubase now, and must fix it in reverse.

So, I've read some of the old posts in the archives here and have found the old Clock to Click module, but aside from that, could someone either link me to or lay out some commonly used way to sync CUBASE to SFP?

I get the idea so far that it is going to require using the VRC module, perhaps being piped in over ASIO. The most painfree method would be great, although that is probably going to mean losing the transport control inside cubase isn't it ? I really don't want to control Cubase via the VRC for sequencing, that would be a bit of a pain in the ass.

Thanks, this is just getting on my nerves. Synced delays aren't supposed to sound like a bunch of galloping horses unless you time it that way.

ums

[UsedManateeSalesman]

So far I've got Cubase synced at 30fps via a VRC and a VDAT with a dummy tape sending MTC into the MIDI Sequencer Dest. Seems like kind of a bit of overhead to get a sync, and furthermore it appears that the INT clock on the CW devices is not actually synced to this speed either, or rather, the truth is I probably have something set wrong.

I think that cubase's concept of 100BPM is still based somehow on its own timing.

Not sure, but the stumbling horses are making me cringe.

[irrelevance]

I use a combination of edited sawtooth wav files, modular loaded with flexor sequencers and wolf's midi tool box to output midi into the scope envvironment to get the sync nice and tight. It takes a little trial and error to get the ramp right but once thats done the file can be saved and reused whenever.
For me the VRC and VDAT are just too slow to use. Cubase really needs to be the master.

link to a recent post of mine, concerning syncing flexor sequencers with cubase:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20660

[UsedManateeSalesman]

Hey, very interesting solution. I agree about the VRC being slow - it takes 1.5 measures for cubase to even respond as a slave.

If this is the simplest solution though I'm pretty annoyed. It's an awful lot of work just to get a modular sequencer to run in time. And, since I'm not talking about Flexor modules (or any modular module right now, though the delay in there would do the same thing), I'm not sure what would need to be made to simulate a midi clock value that was straight to send to the devices I'm talking about.

[irrelevance]

Regarding midi timing I have to say Cubase isn't alone in it's performance. I used to own the yamaha rs7000 which is considered by most who use it (including me) to be very tight when it comes to midi timing. But I found when I fed the clock from the rs7000 into the software environment (numerology modular sequencer for mac) that it wasn't as rock solid as it first appeared. Seems that software is powerful enough to measure the slightest variation in clock times but not powerful enough to generate a solid clock

[UsedManateeSalesman]

I use Numerology also, every once in a while.

I guess it would be too processor intensive to generate the midi clock at a sample accurate level based on the project sample rate. Feh. whatever it is, I need to find some way to sync these delays. It's driving me up the wall. For electronic-only music (idm / synthpop) it's pretty much a staple to have nice TIGHT tempo synced delays.

Of course, another question might be, how hard would it be to get the CW internal midi clock at 120bpm to match the system midi clock at 120. 120 !=120 when compared.

[hubird]

someone posted here that sometimes you have to choose 'faulty' delay numbers to get the desired result yet?!

[valis]

The saw ramp method gives you the best sync you'll find in Scope. Your other option is to try to record shorter phrases so that drift isn't so noticeable over time. Of course your mileage with this method will vary depending on what sort of music you're making.

[UsedManateeSalesman]

The saw ramp method gives you the best sync you'll find in Scope. Your other option is to try to record shorter phrases so that drift isn't so noticeable over time. Of course your mileage with this method will vary depending on what sort of music you're making.

It's not "drift", it's completely out of sync. E.g. if you had a tap on the 4 beats of a 4/4 measure, and the delay was set to 1/8th note, instead of coming in right between, it is somewhere between rushing and dragging. Syncopated swing, when it should be straight. Harder to record a shorter phrase than a few beats.

If I can find a way to turn the saw ramp into midi clock, on the CW side for use by the CW side, then fine. Otherwise it may as well not even have tempo related effects.

[irrelevance]

Ok I misunderstood your problem. I have had the same problem when using SpaceF's LBH II rack recently and posted some questions on the spaceF user board regarding my problems. | was triggering the device from Cubase but it doesn't have a midi sync option (has an internal tempo setting) nor does it have an independant ULLI like the SpaceF echo. Medhi explained that as it's a delay device it requires a large buffer in order to operate correctly at a given sample rate and that it is possible to get a tight sync by setting my ULLI to a lower setting so I changed from 13ms to 25ms and is ok.