Hi Folks,
I have been the proud owner of a Scope Project for years. I have released commercial stuff with it, produced music, post production, sonic arts and god know what other devilish sound pieces came out of its output.
Now I am in a huge dilemma. As I am a Logic user I can't update my sequencer and my operative system because of the ceased Mac support. That means changing, soundcard (loads of money), changing form Mac to PC (never in my life), which also means changing sequencer (Logic 7 does not support Pc anymore)
I find this OUTRAGEUS.
As I spent loads of money on Plug-ins (I have ALL of them), I would expect Creamware to provide support and updates for users like me.
I wrote an email to them with no reply. I find that very rude, as I paid a lot of money to them for hardware, software and plug-ins.
Anyone has got any news about the issue?? I have to take a decision very soon, sell my board or hang on to it??
What do you reckon?
Thanks
OsX Support
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Mr Arkadin
- Posts: 3283
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm
Personally i would be as outraged at Logic for not providing PC support. Why do you say never to PC? However it would be nice to see some development along the OSX route as this would show the world that CW was doing all right, and might generate renewed interest.
If you're set on going OSX and you don't want to run your SCOPE cards from an external OS9/PC machine (one solution) then your only realistic option is to sell your cards as in all honesty i don't think OSX for SCOPE is going to arrive any time soon.
If you're set on going OSX and you don't want to run your SCOPE cards from an external OS9/PC machine (one solution) then your only realistic option is to sell your cards as in all honesty i don't think OSX for SCOPE is going to arrive any time soon.
Last edited by Mr Arkadin on Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:49 am, edited 4 times in total.
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dubstudent
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:15 am
Sorry Folks i think there has been a misunderstanding here.
I didn't post this topic to start the usual geeky PC MAC battle, to be honest with, you i don't give a toss.
My question was, does anyone has any news about OSX support.
You see, my problem is not that i want the product and i can't get it because i haven't got the right machine (which is fair enough).
I ALREADY bought thousands of euros of Creamware software and now i have to throw it in the bin because of CEASED support.
I have to specify that if i knwe they would not support Mac anymore i would have gone for another system.
Thanks and again no offence to any user of any system, that is not the point of my post.
I didn't post this topic to start the usual geeky PC MAC battle, to be honest with, you i don't give a toss.
My question was, does anyone has any news about OSX support.
You see, my problem is not that i want the product and i can't get it because i haven't got the right machine (which is fair enough).
I ALREADY bought thousands of euros of Creamware software and now i have to throw it in the bin because of CEASED support.
I have to specify that if i knwe they would not support Mac anymore i would have gone for another system.
Thanks and again no offence to any user of any system, that is not the point of my post.
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dubstudent
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:15 am
because it even doesn't work correct on OSXkatano wrote:WHY IS THE APOGEE ENSEMBLE ONLY FOR OSX???
dubstudent,
I use a scope rig on win98 connected via Adat & Midi to a mac running Logic7 since it's out.
It's really easy to setup and very reliable .. far more than running both apps on the same comp, imo.
.. if only RME would finally pull out that pci-e card out of the pocket now ..
cheers
Wolfgang
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dubstudent
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:15 am
yep, two machines at least ..
scope setup:
win98 on an intel p4t-e with three scope cards running in digital slave mode.
this is the heart of the studio.
rme adi8-ds connected to one pair of scope adat giving 8 anaolog i/o.
it runs as digital master and I use it mainly as monitoring output, but also for recording voices & instruments.
the other adats & a s/p-dif where connected to a rme digiface giving 28 in and outs. Right now the very same scope signals are connected via a (due to the lack of the pci-e card) borrowed fireface to a MacBook Pro.
Midi goes via the three scope midi ports to a unitor, which is connected to the mac as well.
There are basically two setups I use:
1. scope as mixing platform & Logic as arrange/audio/comping tool
2. logic as mixing platform and scope as big fx and synth processor, which is easily possible thanks to the external instrument / fx plugin of Logic.
Everything is eventually recorded via scope to Vdat or WaveLab.
Btw, replace the mac with a pc and it is the setup, I had until 1-2 years ago .. to change it was a no brainer thanks to having scope on a separate comp. And of course I just talked about the signal route from/to logic, not all the other stuff connected to scope.
cheers
Wolfgang
scope setup:
win98 on an intel p4t-e with three scope cards running in digital slave mode.
this is the heart of the studio.
rme adi8-ds connected to one pair of scope adat giving 8 anaolog i/o.
it runs as digital master and I use it mainly as monitoring output, but also for recording voices & instruments.
the other adats & a s/p-dif where connected to a rme digiface giving 28 in and outs. Right now the very same scope signals are connected via a (due to the lack of the pci-e card) borrowed fireface to a MacBook Pro.
Midi goes via the three scope midi ports to a unitor, which is connected to the mac as well.
There are basically two setups I use:
1. scope as mixing platform & Logic as arrange/audio/comping tool
2. logic as mixing platform and scope as big fx and synth processor, which is easily possible thanks to the external instrument / fx plugin of Logic.
Everything is eventually recorded via scope to Vdat or WaveLab.
Btw, replace the mac with a pc and it is the setup, I had until 1-2 years ago .. to change it was a no brainer thanks to having scope on a separate comp. And of course I just talked about the signal route from/to logic, not all the other stuff connected to scope.
cheers
Wolfgang
I think it mostly has to do with the fact that Apple got rid of PCI slots in their machines, so any OSX driver support would only be for very old machines.
And even more complicated by the Apple shift to a whole new Intel platform...
The variations and changes in the Apple world is far more complex that the PC world of late...
The current PC drivers even work in Vista (mostly), so it is far simpler for Creamware to support PC's than Mac's...
So when you say OSX support, which Apple hardware are you talking about?
cheers.
And even more complicated by the Apple shift to a whole new Intel platform...
The variations and changes in the Apple world is far more complex that the PC world of late...
The current PC drivers even work in Vista (mostly), so it is far simpler for Creamware to support PC's than Mac's...
So when you say OSX support, which Apple hardware are you talking about?
cheers.
at the speed and prices Apple is shelling out Intel CoreDuo based machines no older Mac running OSX makes any sense anymore - the days when you could run and upgrade Quadras and PowerPCs ad infinitum are long gone.
A 1.6 CoreDuo performs like a 3 Ghz P4, CPU wise - stack 4 Minis on top of each other and you have your personal desktop cluster (Logic supports such nodes afaik) for $2k, and that's just Apple's entry box...
Looking back only a fool could demand that a company of CWA's size should have supported OSX from version 1 on - there were so much turns (and EDGES!) in this process it could ruin any company 3 times in a row
Apple changed the roadmap more than once overnite and surprisingly - who then expected the Intel coup 3 years ago ... ?
That simple step for Apple would have sent (possibly) 3 years of PPC based OSX developement down the drain.
They focussed on the right things imho - stuff that has at least some market acceptance and a generally higher customer 'respect' - whoddaya mean - no w*rez, that system s*cks...
CrossoverMac (Codeweaver's version of WINE) is running pretty solid as a beta on OSX, so they might be closer to the OS than it looks**.
Of course NOT for the current cards, as there are no pci slots in Macs anymore and a 'Magma-Class' adapter just isn't worth the expense, considering solutions as the one Wolf presented above.
cheers, Tom
(** btw a 'strategy' like this has been introduced here at least a year ago (?) by someone who wanted to do exactly that with WINE under Linux (just for completeness)
A 1.6 CoreDuo performs like a 3 Ghz P4, CPU wise - stack 4 Minis on top of each other and you have your personal desktop cluster (Logic supports such nodes afaik) for $2k, and that's just Apple's entry box...
Looking back only a fool could demand that a company of CWA's size should have supported OSX from version 1 on - there were so much turns (and EDGES!) in this process it could ruin any company 3 times in a row
Apple changed the roadmap more than once overnite and surprisingly - who then expected the Intel coup 3 years ago ... ?
That simple step for Apple would have sent (possibly) 3 years of PPC based OSX developement down the drain.
They focussed on the right things imho - stuff that has at least some market acceptance and a generally higher customer 'respect' - whoddaya mean - no w*rez, that system s*cks...
CrossoverMac (Codeweaver's version of WINE) is running pretty solid as a beta on OSX, so they might be closer to the OS than it looks**.
Of course NOT for the current cards, as there are no pci slots in Macs anymore and a 'Magma-Class' adapter just isn't worth the expense, considering solutions as the one Wolf presented above.
cheers, Tom
(** btw a 'strategy' like this has been introduced here at least a year ago (?) by someone who wanted to do exactly that with WINE under Linux (just for completeness)
I understand the frustration. At this time I work for a big international ad agency which is totally unwilling to use PC systems at all. This is because of international regulations in the IT department in the US and UK. I have not used my scope systems for 1 year now and I really liked working on them.
At a certain stage I was even willing to pay for the PC system and asked the IT department to allow me to setup and supervise the system myself. Unfortunately I was not allowed to proceed. The only way they will help me is to use the external magma box but even then the system will not work because there is no OSX support. As the company did a big roll out of the new mac pro and macbook pro systems recently there is no support anymore for OS9 systems like the G5.
But I still have a small hope, with the new intel mac systems which are more widely spread in ad agencies every day, creamware will hopefully see the light in the near future.
At a certain stage I was even willing to pay for the PC system and asked the IT department to allow me to setup and supervise the system myself. Unfortunately I was not allowed to proceed. The only way they will help me is to use the external magma box but even then the system will not work because there is no OSX support. As the company did a big roll out of the new mac pro and macbook pro systems recently there is no support anymore for OS9 systems like the G5.
But I still have a small hope, with the new intel mac systems which are more widely spread in ad agencies every day, creamware will hopefully see the light in the near future.
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Mr Arkadin
- Posts: 3283
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm
Astro is spot on. Your frustration should be directed at Apple, not CW - it wasn't CW that introduced an OS that couldn't even be used bu musicians for something like the first three revisions - have changed the card slot to PCI-X and now who knows what and gone Intel-based. Like he says, if CW had supported OSX from the beginning where would they be now? Probably not produceing ASBs that's for sure.
Perhaps the one good thing of this Intel thing is that Apple will finally settle down - and CW can get an OSX version out. However it probably won't be useable on pre-Intel machines, so some people will always be upset i'm afraid.
Perhaps the one good thing of this Intel thing is that Apple will finally settle down - and CW can get an OSX version out. However it probably won't be useable on pre-Intel machines, so some people will always be upset i'm afraid.
well, I wouldn't formulate it that extreme, yet I cannot deny a certain truth in those words...
Anyway, there is no such thing as an Apple Macintosh anymore, let alone a 'Mac Operating System'
Mac users are used to it, btw, one of the most prominent mag columnists wrote an epitaph in that regard almost 20 years ago ... they (Apple products) are computers, but don't call them Macitoshes...
The original Mac paradigm has been sacrificed to the multi billion $ business, that's all
Today Apple supplies an OS that originally (how amusing...) served as one of the reasons why they invented the computer for the rest of us.
It's not all bad in itself, rather the opposite:
all those Linux geeks should have a serious look at OSX to eventually (after 25 years of sandbox playing) understand how to camouflage the OSes inherent complexity a under a cute , yet functional (!) user interface.
In that regard OSX is outstanding
but it is in no way as reliable and easy to service as on original 'Apple native' OS - and that started to decrease with version 8 - released around the time when USB (pushed by Apple) started to screw things in the peripheral and Apple had serious concerns of money raising.
Those damn M68K based things wouldn't fail and you could update any machine with an arbitrary disk containing a new version of the OS...
So they gave up their 'professional only' image and introduced lots of entertainment gimmicks and countless versions of 'consumer' boxes - yet it was clear pretty fast that their main customers would never change a running system.
It was also clear that something entirely new with much more complexity than their classic OS was needed to screw things up properly, to enter the same software-update-hardware-sales spiral the WinTel world was known for.
That's how Unix came to their mind and the big Steven already had tons of experiences (and certainly some inspirations) from his NEXT adventure.
OS 9 was introduced as a patchwork to ease transition - it was never intended as an OS on it's own - and in fact it was OS 9 that people started to complain about stability and bugs formerly unknown in the Apple world.
Things started to take shape...
Surprisingly for Apple, Mac professionals still wouldn't switch to OSX and preferred OS9 boot capabilities - that was too much, so with the 3rd (or so) edition of OSX Apple modified the boot code in the firmware of all machines delivered from that point on to refuse to boot anything but OSX.
Some may laugh about that sentence, but it was something that never happened before in the product history - the customer always had the choice.
Now he or she had had it, and that says it all ...
Of course OSX is superior to XP or Vista in technical terms, but well, is the latter a yardstick at all ?
sorry, a bit long winded, but it is ridiculous to wave the 'Apple only and forever' flag - use what works for you or what applies to your sense of style - after all it's all Intel inside
cheers, Tom
Anyway, there is no such thing as an Apple Macintosh anymore, let alone a 'Mac Operating System'
Mac users are used to it, btw, one of the most prominent mag columnists wrote an epitaph in that regard almost 20 years ago ... they (Apple products) are computers, but don't call them Macitoshes...
The original Mac paradigm has been sacrificed to the multi billion $ business, that's all
Today Apple supplies an OS that originally (how amusing...) served as one of the reasons why they invented the computer for the rest of us.
It's not all bad in itself, rather the opposite:
all those Linux geeks should have a serious look at OSX to eventually (after 25 years of sandbox playing) understand how to camouflage the OSes inherent complexity a under a cute , yet functional (!) user interface.
In that regard OSX is outstanding
but it is in no way as reliable and easy to service as on original 'Apple native' OS - and that started to decrease with version 8 - released around the time when USB (pushed by Apple) started to screw things in the peripheral and Apple had serious concerns of money raising.
Those damn M68K based things wouldn't fail and you could update any machine with an arbitrary disk containing a new version of the OS...
So they gave up their 'professional only' image and introduced lots of entertainment gimmicks and countless versions of 'consumer' boxes - yet it was clear pretty fast that their main customers would never change a running system.
It was also clear that something entirely new with much more complexity than their classic OS was needed to screw things up properly, to enter the same software-update-hardware-sales spiral the WinTel world was known for.
That's how Unix came to their mind and the big Steven already had tons of experiences (and certainly some inspirations) from his NEXT adventure.
OS 9 was introduced as a patchwork to ease transition - it was never intended as an OS on it's own - and in fact it was OS 9 that people started to complain about stability and bugs formerly unknown in the Apple world.
Things started to take shape...
Surprisingly for Apple, Mac professionals still wouldn't switch to OSX and preferred OS9 boot capabilities - that was too much, so with the 3rd (or so) edition of OSX Apple modified the boot code in the firmware of all machines delivered from that point on to refuse to boot anything but OSX.
Some may laugh about that sentence, but it was something that never happened before in the product history - the customer always had the choice.
Now he or she had had it, and that says it all ...
Of course OSX is superior to XP or Vista in technical terms, but well, is the latter a yardstick at all ?
sorry, a bit long winded, but it is ridiculous to wave the 'Apple only and forever' flag - use what works for you or what applies to your sense of style - after all it's all Intel inside
cheers, Tom
Thanks Tom for this rather marketing techno story, it gives me some inside of how OS manufacturers think in this industry.
But for what its worth, I would give you my vision of how things are working for me, just from a creative perspective. I certainly don't want to devalue your insights with it but rather give you an explanation of how I work and manage to learn the system.
I am a creative, at least that's how I feel, I grow up with macs and it took me years to understand computers and what I could do with them. I managed to work fast with macs and became quite confidential with them.
I use to have a lot of hardware synths and sampler stuff and then certainly I found this beautyfull piece of hardware which we all like on this forum and things where working so good for me that I have sold all my synths and sampler stuff. I still think creamware is the best thing I have bought in my life, but at this point I can't use it other than in windows XP or nextgen Vista systems.
I am not disappointed in creamware, I am disappointed that I can't use my creamware cards anymore, it might be my own fault, but I am not a technical kind of guy. I feel sorry that I sold my hardware synths and sampler stuff to switch to this potentially working solution for me.
A friend of mine uses windows XP for DAW purposes and the only thing I ever hear is all kind of horror stories about it which I never experienced with my macs. He is talking in a kind of computer slang which I certainly can't understand, talking about IRCUE's, managing images of his systems and on and on.
I like the forgiveness macs give me, I never had any problems with them. I could really do anything with them and still my sounds and recordings sound like a charm, without doing anything technical at all.
Mac is about buying a box and everything works, thats what I love about them as a non technical guy. However, I agree on you that things are not that well anymore or what it used to be. An example of this you will see in Adobe Illustrator, you can't use it anymore since they forced me to update to a recent version of osx and it takes ages to get a fix for it.
The last thing about it is that I bought a lot of VST instruments which come in mac and windows flavor on one cd. Off course that is great but try to get your settings back in windows xp and how you use them in your songs, it does not work that way at all.
I don't blame anybody, I just want to create music without the technical stuff and problems which apple and creamware never use to give me.
And the last important thing that I would like to say about it; I don't want to use the dust buster anymore, creamware did the cleaning of my wires and synths perfectly for me, without sneezing
But for what its worth, I would give you my vision of how things are working for me, just from a creative perspective. I certainly don't want to devalue your insights with it but rather give you an explanation of how I work and manage to learn the system.
I am a creative, at least that's how I feel, I grow up with macs and it took me years to understand computers and what I could do with them. I managed to work fast with macs and became quite confidential with them.
I use to have a lot of hardware synths and sampler stuff and then certainly I found this beautyfull piece of hardware which we all like on this forum and things where working so good for me that I have sold all my synths and sampler stuff. I still think creamware is the best thing I have bought in my life, but at this point I can't use it other than in windows XP or nextgen Vista systems.
I am not disappointed in creamware, I am disappointed that I can't use my creamware cards anymore, it might be my own fault, but I am not a technical kind of guy. I feel sorry that I sold my hardware synths and sampler stuff to switch to this potentially working solution for me.
A friend of mine uses windows XP for DAW purposes and the only thing I ever hear is all kind of horror stories about it which I never experienced with my macs. He is talking in a kind of computer slang which I certainly can't understand, talking about IRCUE's, managing images of his systems and on and on.
I like the forgiveness macs give me, I never had any problems with them. I could really do anything with them and still my sounds and recordings sound like a charm, without doing anything technical at all.
Mac is about buying a box and everything works, thats what I love about them as a non technical guy. However, I agree on you that things are not that well anymore or what it used to be. An example of this you will see in Adobe Illustrator, you can't use it anymore since they forced me to update to a recent version of osx and it takes ages to get a fix for it.
The last thing about it is that I bought a lot of VST instruments which come in mac and windows flavor on one cd. Off course that is great but try to get your settings back in windows xp and how you use them in your songs, it does not work that way at all.
I don't blame anybody, I just want to create music without the technical stuff and problems which apple and creamware never use to give me.
And the last important thing that I would like to say about it; I don't want to use the dust buster anymore, creamware did the cleaning of my wires and synths perfectly for me, without sneezing
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hubird
Astroman loved macs in the past, and knows every detail of it's inside and history 
The new 'policy' of Apple forcing people to buy new macs is something that I can't judge, it seems a bit sour to me to put it that way
The old operating system -in a world of more and more complicated computer functionality- needed a real update to -for once and all- isolate the operating system from the user part.
I don't have to restart the system under OSX(classic!) when the bug in the Gaussian Blur plug of Photoshop shows up (freezes OS9 at a setting of more than 3,5 pixel)
Two devellopments introduced by Apple are discutable if you wish: PCI-E and the switch to Intel.
After all those years that Apple invented time after time great new stuff, one should forgive them the PCI-E move.
It probably had it's reason, but I'm not a technology whatcher
The Intel switch, well, they were forced to, as Motorola failed in the chase after clock cycles.
Apple has to be priced to have prepared the switch in secret, years ago already, they did the job with light velocity.
I don't wanne open a pc-vs mac discussion, but you can't say that someone who prefers to work on mac is 'waving the mac flag', or is just after 'looks'.
There is still a huge different between a mac and a Windows pc, if you know to value it, or if you are 'not a technical kind of guy', as dellai says (me eighter!).
The Operating system is great, clean and user friendly (Vista shameless copies the looks at least).
And the hardware is terrific and designed to work with the specific OS, which is crucial.
IRQ, Registry stuff, Standard/ACPI, HT, these problems just don't exist on mac.
The thread 'Zero problems users' shows that you can mace music on pc perfectly, but it's still true that you need to know what you're doing.
With every new move you must try to find the best solution, like mobo, Bios settings, etc.
After working on mac for years I really was asking myself when I got a member of Planetz, what are they talking about all day, a mobo, what the hell is a mobo??...
it turned out to be crucial!
I am investing a lot of mony at the moment, to be able to run my cards in my studio, via ADAT between two macs.
I hope Creamware will support the Intel macs in the future, I just don't hope that will be soon, as for the mony and time I'm putting into it now
The new 'policy' of Apple forcing people to buy new macs is something that I can't judge, it seems a bit sour to me to put it that way
The old operating system -in a world of more and more complicated computer functionality- needed a real update to -for once and all- isolate the operating system from the user part.
I don't have to restart the system under OSX(classic!) when the bug in the Gaussian Blur plug of Photoshop shows up (freezes OS9 at a setting of more than 3,5 pixel)
Two devellopments introduced by Apple are discutable if you wish: PCI-E and the switch to Intel.
After all those years that Apple invented time after time great new stuff, one should forgive them the PCI-E move.
It probably had it's reason, but I'm not a technology whatcher
The Intel switch, well, they were forced to, as Motorola failed in the chase after clock cycles.
Apple has to be priced to have prepared the switch in secret, years ago already, they did the job with light velocity.
I don't wanne open a pc-vs mac discussion, but you can't say that someone who prefers to work on mac is 'waving the mac flag', or is just after 'looks'.
There is still a huge different between a mac and a Windows pc, if you know to value it, or if you are 'not a technical kind of guy', as dellai says (me eighter!).
The Operating system is great, clean and user friendly (Vista shameless copies the looks at least).
And the hardware is terrific and designed to work with the specific OS, which is crucial.
IRQ, Registry stuff, Standard/ACPI, HT, these problems just don't exist on mac.
The thread 'Zero problems users' shows that you can mace music on pc perfectly, but it's still true that you need to know what you're doing.
With every new move you must try to find the best solution, like mobo, Bios settings, etc.
After working on mac for years I really was asking myself when I got a member of Planetz, what are they talking about all day, a mobo, what the hell is a mobo??...
it turned out to be crucial!
I am investing a lot of mony at the moment, to be able to run my cards in my studio, via ADAT between two macs.
I hope Creamware will support the Intel macs in the future, I just don't hope that will be soon, as for the mony and time I'm putting into it now
well, that quote about '...Apple forcing customers to buy...' isn't to be overestimated as it's a couple of years back already. Yet it bears an enormous symbolic significance.
It's true that OSX is a bit more forgiving on the application side of errors, but the much praised 'memory protection feature' of unix only holds as long as the application deals with itself. As soon as a device or driver (read system memory) is involved it will crash as deep and thorough as any other system would
Not to be misunderstood:
OSX is a good system (got to live with what 's available...) and imho it's not even questionable that it's lightyears ahead of any flavour of Windows.
But that is more based on the fact that it's so hard to release something worse than the latter...
Which on the other hand does NOT exclude the fact that (almost arbitrary) Windows versions can be made to be 'productive' - however crappy they may be.
I use Win98 to boot SFP, write and edit some VDAT files and maybe listen to a couple of mp3s that deserve better playback - and that's about it.
I don't need more than 512 MB on that machine, so why bother that it doesn't adress more ?
GaryB has methods to make XP systems work reliably under the hardest conditions - live. You start with a quality base and just kick out out as much of the gimmicks as possible and then don't change it anymore - and it will be rock solid.
I am convinced that 95% of all problems are related to install this, test that, remove another one, how about the new... kind of system operation.
They don't do it in an industry production line, so you should stay away from it, too - if your system has to be productive
the mobo/chipset/irq orgy is a natural follow-up of the ... I want the best and the fastest for the least amount, a no-go in itself, spiced with some pointless marketing/review bs (we're all so informed since google rules the world - their stock crossed the 500 Euro btw, ouch) .
There really isn't much difference between the effective complexity of XP and MacOSX for a so-called end user (with few technical skills).
He or she will fail on upgrading a Mac Mini as well as trying to setup an XP network out of the box.
On the old Mac you could, and to make this clear and unmistakeable I'm talking OS 7 here, as that's where Apple's reputation regarding stability and (practically non-necessary) service is about.
Waving the Mac Flag is a synonym for these days, which are (very) long gone.
It were exactly the sales figures from those years that made Apple's product policy change, as the following note shows:
Don't laugh about it (i.e. you update heroes) - I know for sure that the most popular local newspaper in my area still uses Mac Quadras under OS7 for a certain stage of the current (!) production - everyday.
There have been countless attempts from 'consultants' to sell something new to the department, but they all failed to present a software ( out of their all-so-mighty-portfolio) that simply does the job...
don't make life harder by following an illusion based on memories - and thus restricting your choice of tools.
You can install XP on an Intel Mac, you can run both systems parallel (with virtualization software) or even execute Windows apps under OSX (with a software faking the system calls) - they cannot be that different
cheers, Tom
It's true that OSX is a bit more forgiving on the application side of errors, but the much praised 'memory protection feature' of unix only holds as long as the application deals with itself. As soon as a device or driver (read system memory) is involved it will crash as deep and thorough as any other system would
Not to be misunderstood:
OSX is a good system (got to live with what 's available...) and imho it's not even questionable that it's lightyears ahead of any flavour of Windows.
But that is more based on the fact that it's so hard to release something worse than the latter...
Which on the other hand does NOT exclude the fact that (almost arbitrary) Windows versions can be made to be 'productive' - however crappy they may be.
I use Win98 to boot SFP, write and edit some VDAT files and maybe listen to a couple of mp3s that deserve better playback - and that's about it.
I don't need more than 512 MB on that machine, so why bother that it doesn't adress more ?
GaryB has methods to make XP systems work reliably under the hardest conditions - live. You start with a quality base and just kick out out as much of the gimmicks as possible and then don't change it anymore - and it will be rock solid.
I am convinced that 95% of all problems are related to install this, test that, remove another one, how about the new... kind of system operation.
They don't do it in an industry production line, so you should stay away from it, too - if your system has to be productive
the mobo/chipset/irq orgy is a natural follow-up of the ... I want the best and the fastest for the least amount, a no-go in itself, spiced with some pointless marketing/review bs (we're all so informed since google rules the world - their stock crossed the 500 Euro btw, ouch) .
There really isn't much difference between the effective complexity of XP and MacOSX for a so-called end user (with few technical skills).
He or she will fail on upgrading a Mac Mini as well as trying to setup an XP network out of the box.
On the old Mac you could, and to make this clear and unmistakeable I'm talking OS 7 here, as that's where Apple's reputation regarding stability and (practically non-necessary) service is about.
Waving the Mac Flag is a synonym for these days, which are (very) long gone.
It were exactly the sales figures from those years that made Apple's product policy change, as the following note shows:
Don't laugh about it (i.e. you update heroes) - I know for sure that the most popular local newspaper in my area still uses Mac Quadras under OS7 for a certain stage of the current (!) production - everyday.
There have been countless attempts from 'consultants' to sell something new to the department, but they all failed to present a software ( out of their all-so-mighty-portfolio) that simply does the job...
don't make life harder by following an illusion based on memories - and thus restricting your choice of tools.
You can install XP on an Intel Mac, you can run both systems parallel (with virtualization software) or even execute Windows apps under OSX (with a software faking the system calls) - they cannot be that different
cheers, Tom
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hubird