Sonar 6
! so soon.
AudioSnap™ Multitrack Audio Quantize
so.. quantize problem are gone from now
its good or bad?
it could be sonar 5.3 cause they didn't add lots a stuffs. maybe it sounds better in 6
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: firubbi on 2006-09-11 07:41 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: firubbi on 2006-09-11 07:53 ]</font>
AudioSnap™ Multitrack Audio Quantize
so.. quantize problem are gone from now
its good or bad?
it could be sonar 5.3 cause they didn't add lots a stuffs. maybe it sounds better in 6
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: firubbi on 2006-09-11 07:41 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: firubbi on 2006-09-11 07:53 ]</font>
should this worry us, creamware users?
http://cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Performance.asp
The Power of Native Processing
With Intel and AMD's breakthroughs in processor technology, expensive and cumbersome add-on DSP cards are a thing of the past. Patch multiple effects, perform with multiple virtual instruments, and record on multiple tracks simultaneously…SONAR 6 can do it all without breaking a sweat.
PS: i'm waiting for my S6 copy...
http://cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Performance.asp
The Power of Native Processing
With Intel and AMD's breakthroughs in processor technology, expensive and cumbersome add-on DSP cards are a thing of the past. Patch multiple effects, perform with multiple virtual instruments, and record on multiple tracks simultaneously…SONAR 6 can do it all without breaking a sweat.
PS: i'm waiting for my S6 copy...
they keep telling that (fairy)tale for almost a decade now ...
let Guitar Rig battle Dynatube - if they dare
who challenges Blackbox, Flexor, Zarg and the Wavelength gang ?
amuzed, Tom
ps: all those statements just tell they can do this or that native processing - they never say how good the result will be.
Maybe they change the lable to naive processing ...
let Guitar Rig battle Dynatube - if they dare
who challenges Blackbox, Flexor, Zarg and the Wavelength gang ?
amuzed, Tom
ps: all those statements just tell they can do this or that native processing - they never say how good the result will be.
Maybe they change the lable to naive processing ...
-
ChrisWerner
- Posts: 1738
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Germany/Bavaria
- Contact:
sorry Chris, but this will never happen.
They focus on cash now, I've read the anniversary feature in Keys - that engine you're talking about is so bloated that it IS impossible to properly re-implement it with quality aspects in mind. 50 MB of objectcode are represent at least a terabyte of assembly source (I dunno how much grafic is included, but the rule of thumb was a (minimum) factor of 20 to 50 from C object code to assembly source)
It's clear that this amount isn't manageable by humans anymore - it's a job for automated systems.
Which may work perfectly well - at the expense of a factor 4 to 8 less efficiency - and that's about it with 'powerful' CPUs
The CoreDuo seems to benefit most from it's enormous cache in real world applications - there will be NO new signal processing algorithms or improved math libs due the existance of this CPU, so all will remain the same.
Except that afew things are loaded faster...
you KNOW how to use their products - it's reflected in your songs and that's the most important fact.
I've been tempted myself to order an FM7 NIversary... it has such a nice gui to edit the old DX stuff and my DX200 that could be used as a realtime controller - if it could dump the mods back to the DX I would have already ordered it (even at the full price)
cheers, Tom
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-09-11 15:33 ]</font>
They focus on cash now, I've read the anniversary feature in Keys - that engine you're talking about is so bloated that it IS impossible to properly re-implement it with quality aspects in mind. 50 MB of objectcode are represent at least a terabyte of assembly source (I dunno how much grafic is included, but the rule of thumb was a (minimum) factor of 20 to 50 from C object code to assembly source)
It's clear that this amount isn't manageable by humans anymore - it's a job for automated systems.
Which may work perfectly well - at the expense of a factor 4 to 8 less efficiency - and that's about it with 'powerful' CPUs
The CoreDuo seems to benefit most from it's enormous cache in real world applications - there will be NO new signal processing algorithms or improved math libs due the existance of this CPU, so all will remain the same.
Except that afew things are loaded faster...
you KNOW how to use their products - it's reflected in your songs
and that's the most important fact.I've been tempted myself to order an FM7 NIversary... it has such a nice gui to edit the old DX stuff and my DX200 that could be used as a realtime controller - if it could dump the mods back to the DX I would have already ordered it (even at the full price)
cheers, Tom
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-09-11 15:33 ]</font>
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Shayne White
- Posts: 1454
- Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: California
- Contact:
It's more hype. It's not going to pose a problem for PowerCore and UAD-1 users because there are specific plugins on those cards that people want that aren't available for native DX/VST. It's not going to pose a problem for the CreamWare world because native systems have not yet achieved the kind of performance you'd need at 1.5ms latency, which is the only latency amount that can remotely match up with DSPs. Also, unless they have dramatically redone their audio engine, it's not remotely gapless. Any time you patch in effects, change the Now time, save, play around with envelopes, etc., there are gaps in the audio stream. It's simply not quite "live" yet like dedicated DSP hardware.On 2006-09-11 08:56, bosone wrote:
should this worry us, creamware users?
http://cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Performance.asp
The Power of Native Processing
With Intel and AMD's breakthroughs in processor technology, expensive and cumbersome add-on DSP cards are a thing of the past. Patch multiple effects, perform with multiple virtual instruments, and record on multiple tracks simultaneously…SONAR 6 can do it all without breaking a sweat.
PS: i'm waiting for my S6 copy...
OK, maybe they have redesigned their entire audio engine. Maybe the latest computers are fast enough to run 20 soft synths and 50 effects at 1.5ms latency (at 96k, too?). But even then, they still don't have MiniMax!
Shayne
Melodious Synth Radio
http://www.melodious-synth.com
Melodious synth music by Binary Sea
http://www.binary-sea.com
http://www.melodious-synth.com
Melodious synth music by Binary Sea
http://www.binary-sea.com
I'm waitng for Sonar 13 b4 I buy into that marketing hype. Or maybe Nuendo 12.42. All of this audio stuff is addicting I must admit, but I will just practice more classical piano and master my SFP DAW's as we only need to record our music. These apps shouldn't rule our lifes. I actually liked Rocky VI though. Sorry I am a little bored as I keep fucking with my Global Optimisation windows over and over and over and over,...........etc.
_________________
Jimmy V.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: scope4live on 2006-09-11 16:58 ]</font>
_________________
Jimmy V.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: scope4live on 2006-09-11 16:58 ]</font>
I really like the raw sound of FM7. Although I don't have a DX7 around to compare it to atm (had a dx7IId on loan for a while) I think that if u remove the crappy filters & fx it sounds a bit clearer than the hardware, especially running @ 24/96 on the laptop. I've got an fs1r here for comparison, but the differences in the architecture are enough that I still sometimes appreciate the FM7 software basses a lot more than the FS1r.On 2006-09-11 12:47, astroman wrote:
I've been tempted myself to order an FM7 NIversary... it has such a nice gui to edit the old DX stuff and my DX200 that could be used as a realtime controller - if it could dump the mods back to the DX I would have already ordered it (even at the full price)
cheers, Tom
-
ChrisWerner
- Posts: 1738
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Germany/Bavaria
- Contact:
Again Tom destroyed one of my expectations.
Life is a hard one.
It puts a bit of shame on NI.
When I look at the Rob Papen (LinPlug) stuff, Albino3 and Blue, these synths were the first ones as far as I know, that were working in UB on my Mac Book. And hell these are nice synths with a great cpu/performance ratio.
I setup my expectations on NI to high.
BTW: Sorry that I´ve captured Hysterics thread away.
_________________
Music starts where any language ends<br>
<a href="http://www.spring-of-sound.de">Spring-Of-Sound.de</a>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChrisWerner on 2006-09-11 23:14 ]</font>
Life is a hard one.
It puts a bit of shame on NI.
When I look at the Rob Papen (LinPlug) stuff, Albino3 and Blue, these synths were the first ones as far as I know, that were working in UB on my Mac Book. And hell these are nice synths with a great cpu/performance ratio.
I setup my expectations on NI to high.
BTW: Sorry that I´ve captured Hysterics thread away.
_________________
Music starts where any language ends<br>
<a href="http://www.spring-of-sound.de">Spring-Of-Sound.de</a>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChrisWerner on 2006-09-11 23:14 ]</font>
maybe the between-the-lines-content in the last paragraph of the afforementioned interview (w. one of the NI founders) puts some light on this
...I enjoy the luxury to deeply dig into themes like sound synthesis and user interface - and, after a long time interuption - to make music again...
a comparison between videos about Steven Jobs from the early 80s and more recent ones via YouTube is also quite entertaining...
Don't get me wrong, NI deserves all their business success - they fought hard for this.
It's easy to profitably run a 2 man's project - to turn it into a competive company of 130 persons (employes plus freelancers) is a completely different thing. Respect.
It's just that with this change in structure there's also a change in technological abilities - it has to be imho.
And it's clearly reflected in the aquisition policy of any more than midsized corporation.
The 'smart' parts of the product(palette) often originate from more compact and 'reactive' external sources.
NI very early did this with Absynth (in a friendly way of coop), CoolEdit became Adobe Audition, and M$soft on the other end of the scale doesn't have even one single product developed in house.
The 'corporate structure' kills creativity and innovation.
In that sense look for stunning products wherever you like - they do exist. But not at big companies in the first place.
cheers, Tom
...I enjoy the luxury to deeply dig into themes like sound synthesis and user interface - and, after a long time interuption - to make music again...
a comparison between videos about Steven Jobs from the early 80s and more recent ones via YouTube is also quite entertaining...
Don't get me wrong, NI deserves all their business success - they fought hard for this.
It's easy to profitably run a 2 man's project - to turn it into a competive company of 130 persons (employes plus freelancers) is a completely different thing. Respect.
It's just that with this change in structure there's also a change in technological abilities - it has to be imho.
And it's clearly reflected in the aquisition policy of any more than midsized corporation.
The 'smart' parts of the product(palette) often originate from more compact and 'reactive' external sources.
NI very early did this with Absynth (in a friendly way of coop), CoolEdit became Adobe Audition, and M$soft on the other end of the scale doesn't have even one single product developed in house.
The 'corporate structure' kills creativity and innovation.
In that sense look for stunning products wherever you like - they do exist. But not at big companies in the first place.
cheers, Tom
Re: Sonar 6
http://www.cakewalk.com/sonarupgrade/sneak.asp
sonar 6 released on 2006
sonar 9 is coming on 2009 .... per year a new version.
sonar 6 released on 2006
sonar 9 is coming on 2009 .... per year a new version.
Re: Sonar 6
It's sonar 8.5 in factfirubbi wrote:http://www.cakewalk.com/sonarupgrade/sneak.asp
sonar 6 released on 2006
sonar 9 is coming on 2009 .... per year a new version.
and it has some quite nice things, like an arpegiator on eachtrack, a matrix view à la Project 5 / Live and a good step sequencer
The routing is quite good, not as good as Reaper's tho. (Scope's routing plays in a different league )The bundled FX and synths are very good imho, and the voice or percussion strips have everything you need in a single place, but they are not as good as solaris, master it, the C350 or the P100. There's nothing in there like Dynomic or Saw
Re: Sonar 6
I've been following soft synths closely for years both for professional reasons (to ensure my algorithmic music software plays well with them) and because I'm just wired to like big modulars and any software that has a hope of emulating them. I've also followed some of the big studio packages, although less closely. I've had online (that's BBS, pre internet) discussions with Greg Hendershott in the '80s when he was developing what would become Cakewalk and I was working on MusicBox, which would become ArtWonk. Greg was in favor of what amounted to a digital MIDI recorder that captured MIDI then allowed it to be edited; I was more interested in real time algorithmic generation of MIDI. Greg's approach is the one that took and it put him in Ferraris; mine has, alas, remained obscure and I still drive Fords. (But I think I still have more fun with my own software than he does with his.)
I've been involved with beta testing of early versions of VAZ and Reaktor, both of which are excellent modular softsynths. In fact, I've owned most of the major softsynths. Again for professional reasons, to make sure they can be properly driven by my software; and because I just love the damn things.
It has been clear to me for a few years, and it has now come to pass, that modern computer chips can perform well enough to do native DSP based softsynths. You don't really need special DSP cards to do the job.
So what's the deal with Scope?
It is my belief that Scope, both in Xite-1 and PCI card incarnations, have made the DSP/Native argument irrelevant because it has surpassed the limits of technology and become a genuine (if monstrously flexible) musical instrument. I've said it before and I'll say it again: it's become the Stradivarius of soft synths because it's become timeless. While I wish S/C the best and very much hope they live long and prosper, in a sense it doesn't matter whether they do or not. Scope will continue to be the best of the best of the softsynth solutions long after the technology moves on.
Scope is - for me at least - a solved issue. As much as I like the other softsynths, especially Auturia's Moog V, and of course VAZ and Reaktor (and even the AA Tassman although their licensing is buggy and I was plagued with having to beg for a reset every few months), I no longer bother to install any other softsynths besides Scope. Not only are the Scope synths and modulars among the best, but all the studio wiring is included in a visually clean manner that can easily be saved and later returned to and modified. This makes a Scope project a living instrument, rather than an archive of something already done.
Forgive me if I sound a bit obsessive about Scope. I've been working with modular synths and finally softsynths since the 70's and Scope is the first synth sound environment that does it all and does it well enough so that I can stop jonesing for more and better technology to solve all the many problems inherent with synth sound creation. Finally, finally, Scope can put "paid" to all that: problem solved, just go do music now.
PS: I'm feeling a little giddy because finally I got Xite-1 working. So, yes, there are still technology issues, and there always will be. But I still contend that Scope, whether the proven PCI cards, or the emerging Xite-1 box, should be thought of more as musical instruments than technology solutions. Scope has transcended technology.
I've been involved with beta testing of early versions of VAZ and Reaktor, both of which are excellent modular softsynths. In fact, I've owned most of the major softsynths. Again for professional reasons, to make sure they can be properly driven by my software; and because I just love the damn things.
It has been clear to me for a few years, and it has now come to pass, that modern computer chips can perform well enough to do native DSP based softsynths. You don't really need special DSP cards to do the job.
So what's the deal with Scope?
It is my belief that Scope, both in Xite-1 and PCI card incarnations, have made the DSP/Native argument irrelevant because it has surpassed the limits of technology and become a genuine (if monstrously flexible) musical instrument. I've said it before and I'll say it again: it's become the Stradivarius of soft synths because it's become timeless. While I wish S/C the best and very much hope they live long and prosper, in a sense it doesn't matter whether they do or not. Scope will continue to be the best of the best of the softsynth solutions long after the technology moves on.
Scope is - for me at least - a solved issue. As much as I like the other softsynths, especially Auturia's Moog V, and of course VAZ and Reaktor (and even the AA Tassman although their licensing is buggy and I was plagued with having to beg for a reset every few months), I no longer bother to install any other softsynths besides Scope. Not only are the Scope synths and modulars among the best, but all the studio wiring is included in a visually clean manner that can easily be saved and later returned to and modified. This makes a Scope project a living instrument, rather than an archive of something already done.
Forgive me if I sound a bit obsessive about Scope. I've been working with modular synths and finally softsynths since the 70's and Scope is the first synth sound environment that does it all and does it well enough so that I can stop jonesing for more and better technology to solve all the many problems inherent with synth sound creation. Finally, finally, Scope can put "paid" to all that: problem solved, just go do music now.
PS: I'm feeling a little giddy because finally I got Xite-1 working. So, yes, there are still technology issues, and there always will be. But I still contend that Scope, whether the proven PCI cards, or the emerging Xite-1 box, should be thought of more as musical instruments than technology solutions. Scope has transcended technology.