OSX and Linux status update

MBSound · Post by **MBSound** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:30 am

Is Scope project the same as Pulsar 2 as i've looked it up at a dealer in the Netherlands and the Pulsar unit still has a new price of € 1541,- and at the same dealer Scope Home is € 999,-.

Anyways still hoping for an update to OSX-compatibility, for the Scope products. If it's not coming it would be easier for people like me to dicide on wether to sell there CWAudio stuf or keep it. Aside to that it is not supporting OSX I'm happy with what it is capable of, it's just making more and more a limiting factor in how I want my studio-setup to be.

cheers Marius

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:31 am

On 2005-10-20 16:57, MBSound wrote:
what is it that this topic was about? I tought it was 'OSX & linux status update'. So, on topic ...

... would € 1000,- be a realistic price to ask for the Pulsar 2 and the luna 8 in 8 out?

Way to stay on topic!

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:28 pm

On 2005-10-21 12:30, MBSound wrote:
Is Scope project the same as Pulsar 2 as i've looked it up at a dealer in the Netherlands and the Pulsar unit still has a new price of € 1541,- and at the same dealer Scope Home is € 999,-. ...

it's the same hardware, but the bundled software is different - you get more bang for the buck today.
Don't be fooled by those prices.
They have to be high, so the dealer can give an impressive discount

anyway, CWA is on the right track with their new hardware boxes to regain a healthy balance - like it or leave it, it's a matter of fact.
A company of CWA's size has to be excellent to survive today's market pressure.
It's probably the spirit of people like Ralf and AndreD (among others) that keeps them going - a concentration on SFP for OSX would be economic suicide in this situation.
Can you still count aquisitions and mergers in this industry over the last couple of years ?
Companies far larger than CWA lost their independence

And just imagine CWA would have put heavy resources on an OSX port a year ago... they are approaching their (technical) goals and just overnite Apple announces the Intel coop.
Now probably none will buy those G5s anymore after next year - time and money down the drain...

you know your system and that it is a phantastic value for the money - give it some old box, either G4 Sawtooth/Quicksilver or Pentium III, buy a couple of Adat cards and connect it via hardware to your new DAW under OSX Tiger.

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-10-21 13:30 ]

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:06 pm

With you 300% on that there Tom (except OSX, Tiger etc)

Most of what you're realising are points that i've been making ocassionally over the past few months too, which is nice

Bottom line, >> Very unstable computer industry !!!! Period !

MBSound · Post by **MBSound** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:56 pm

So, yeah maybe i'm being a bit idealistic and still hoping for a OSX-update, but is it stupid to say that a lot of proffesionals are working with MAC-based systems rather than using PC's. I'm not on programming-level or anything like that. In my work do get confronted with al lot of PC's, doing important broadcast work. My experience is that even though the setup might work flawless when just setup, the systems get less stable over time. Also having some experience with Pyramix (Merging Technolygies), the hardware and software itself runs fine, but it is on a windows-based computer that has shown me to cause problems. I'm not trying to say that Apple is heaven and PC is hell, no ... my current setup (in my studio) isn't that stable, that is because software and hardware is made less and less backwards compatible in my opinion. As I've said before,... this is really to bad, because I really do like the CWAudio stuff.

Some other people have suggested Tom's sollution to me before (buy a cheap pentium and some adat-cards), maybe I'll do that. First I still will try to sell it though. If the price I'm getting for it isn't making me happy, i'll hang on to it and put it on the shelf. Because first I want to make me setup is working, before I'll resort to first getting my audio into a PC and through some adat-connections to my MAC. I'm thinking of investing in some RME-stuff, read some really good things about those guys in the Sound on Sound.

Anyways it's just too bad for everybody that we are in fact in such a unstable period for computer-users (Shroomz, right on the button), i'm saying computer-users because it's not just a problem for us music-makers, it's got to have it's effects on other pro-users aswell.

Anyway ... cheers from a probably soon ex-CWAudio-user ... (still a fan, but have to move on)

Marius

[ This Message was edited by: MBSound on 2005-10-21 18:57 ]

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:39 pm

Marius: sorry for being facetious earlier, it came off much harsher than I intended it: as a gentle poke in the ribs!

I think it comes down to a few things: 1) how you work best; 2) how much power you need; and 3) what you can afford. I don't think RME is comparable to CreamWare for many users. In the same way that a Sound Plaster Bro is not comparable to a Digidesign HD1. There's more to the system than just converters.

Of course if all you need are converters, you're definitely better off going with another manufacturer that supports your preferred platform and has good quality converters. Then use the native apps that suit you best.

But for routing and power-by-price, there isn't anything that can touch CreamWare, on any platform, that I know of.

Many of us (me included) would like to see platform expansion. But personally until I see a product that is comparable in power and price, I know I'll be stuck using a crappy operating system that needs re-install every 2 years (assuming I keep it clean for 2 years!). CreamWare on Windoze is, to me, waaay better than RME on Linux. Even though I am much more comfortable maintaining a Linux machine. And I have great respect for RME -- even their older cards are workhorses!

Anyway that's my $35. I do hope you'll stick around and keep your CWA gear. But the more important question is: what works best for you. And on that note, best wishes!

youngsta · Post by **youngsta** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:10 am

You know it would have been nice if Creamware would give us a status update or a straight awnser if os x or linux would be supported. It would be nice if they posted a beta version of sfp for os x or offer some kind of solution.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:06 am

On 2005-10-21 18:56, MBSound wrote:
...Anyways it's just too bad for everybody that we are in fact in such a unstable period for computer-users (Shroomz, right on the button), i'm saying computer-users because it's not just a problem for us music-makers, it's got to have it's effects on other pro-users aswell...

you see, that's the reason why I occasionally throw in one or the other story 'from the old days'

it's not to whine ...everything was better back then..., but the 'industry' really did follow different goals.
Everyone tried to supply the best value to 'their' customers, that wasn't restricted to Apple at all.

The transition to what we experience today has been completed roughly 10 years ago - too far in the past for many users here to have a personal impression.

time cannot be turned back, but the knowledge about facts (and self-fulfilling promises) can make us aware when we have to make our very own decisions about investments

you do not need a cheapo PC if you prefer to stay in the Apple domain - any G3 will do.
If the noise annoys you - you can disconnect all fans except the PSU (a G4/350 in the office runs for 5 years this way).

SFP itself isn't heavy processing nor is it related to Altivec (G4 optimizations).

True, there is an extra expense for the Adat connection, but your system will become easier to maintain and (in your special case) much more stable.
It's your decision of course, but I can assure you it's EXACTLY what I will do even though I'm not under the same kind of pression as you are.
I can't avoid to install/uninstall stuff from time to time and this definetely screws Windows (any version) and as a follow up strange things start to happen in SFP, too.

cheers, Tom

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:01 pm

I agree Stardust & Astro & everyone.

If anyone desperately needs answers from the horse's mouth then the best thing to do -- as always -- is to pick up the phone and talk to the horse.

The CreamWare support folks are really nice, and really honest, and will tell you what they know for sure and even what they expect.

$35,

Johann

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:11 am

On 2005-10-22 03:10, youngsta wrote:
You know it would have been nice if Creamware would give us a status update or a straight awnser if os x or linux would be supported. It would be nice if they posted a beta version of sfp for os x or offer some kind of solution.

AFAIK Creamware said once they concentrate on PC. This thread was started by some enthusiasts who try to program some Linux/OSX software on their own (but with cooperation with CWA) so I wouldn't rather expect any words from CWA regarding OSX (as for now).

enb141 · Post by **enb141** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:07 am

On 2005-11-04 01:11, samplaire wrote:
On 2005-10-22 03:10, youngsta wrote:
You know it would have been nice if Creamware would give us a status update or a straight awnser if os x or linux would be supported. It would be nice if they posted a beta version of sfp for os x or offer some kind of solution.
AFAIK Creamware said once they concentrate on PC. This thread was started by some enthusiasts who try to program some Linux/OSX software on their own (but with cooperation with CWA) so I wouldn't rather expect any words from CWA regarding OSX (as for now).

AFAIK Creamware is not concentrating in sofware anymore, there's no Windows XP x64 development neither and we had nothing new for Windows XP x86 long time ago.

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:00 am

you are right.

Post by **garyb** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:04 pm

there is a bigger computer change first.

this has already been expressed by the company. there is a new card planned. it won't be for a while and compatability with old systems and upgrade paths, etc are still to be decided upon based on that computer change.

the computer business is very unstable right now. look at the g5. six months ago it was the most advanced peice of hardware ever. it had pcix slots in it. today the NEW g5 has a different processor and pciE slots, the "old" computer is obsolete. what would have happened to all those pcix cards had they been made?

64bit architecture APPEARS to be the wave of the future. pci-e and especially the current atx layout are not so certain. we'll know a lot more in the next year or so, what the powers that be want to do to us......in the mean time, the current gear is cheap and works great.(believe 'dat)

Post by **hubird** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:09 pm

Unfortunately Gary has right.
If I were CWA, I wouldn't be pleased now, it's hard to decide on what to invest the spare mony.
I love working on mac, and I definitely need a faster one, but I can't blame CWA for not being ready for it, considering the PCI voltage issue and other tech novelties mentioned.
The least I feel worried about is 64 bit support, to hell with it

Support of my platform, that's what I need.

And for Windows, gaming is the motor for the new devellopments, not audio.
It would be nice if some pc manufacturers would concentrate explicitely on reliable 'audio mobos' and stuff, and aim on uniformity, stability and quality.
IRQ, HT, ACPI, cooling issues, whatever, it just should not exist

Making music, mixing and mastering, that's my job, and I just need a good platform to get that right

sfp111 · Post by **sfp111** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:54 am

what you think CW team about the news of apple !

apple migrates to intel centrino´s procesors technology and new machines suport CW cards!

what you thinking about release OSX drivers ?

[ This Message was edited by: sfp111 on 2006-01-20 04:56 ]

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:28 pm

On 2005-11-09 15:04, garyb wrote:

the computer business is very unstable right now. look at the g5. six months ago it was the most advanced peice of hardware ever. it had pcix slots in it.

I never understood why they went this way. I'd be pissed off if I was a G5 user!

sfp111 · Post by **sfp111** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:23 pm

i´m G5 user but i hope to buy the new MAC-INTEL machines whith processors of double chisets named "CENTRINO "

the mean 2 ghZ x2 procesors = 4 ghz

go to http://www.apple.com and see

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:48 pm

you want to buy an iMac ???
could it be you messed Core Duo with Dual Core ?
there is no Intel based G5-like Mac yet

cheers, tom

valis · Post by **valis** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:00 pm

2 cores running at 2Ghz doesn't achieve anything close to 4Ghz. Issues like thread parallelism, whether or not an app even IS multithreaded, cache contention, memory bus bandwidth and latency all factor into limiting the real world yields you'll achieve, especially with something like audio which doesn't achieve the level of granularization as 3d rendering or calculating SETI blocks.

Also, Centrino is the name for the entire Intel chipset package for mobile computing and included power saving features, wireless networking and the chipset/cpu. Yonah was the 'codename' for the current single & dual core cpu's in the current intel mobile chipset, and Intel has seen fit to call them "Duo" and "Solo" for dual and single cores.

As astroman is pointing out there is no desktop version of this yet either. The next generation cores are on their way, on the mobile side Yonah's replacement is currently Merom and seems ahead of schedule. So are the next generation desktop & 'workstation' (Xeon) cores.

I am willing to bet sometime in latter 2006 we'll see the emergence of Intel replacing the G5 line. Why haven't we seen this already? Yonah is 32bit...and Merom and its counterpart cores are EMT64.

jules · Post by **jules** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:40 am

HI everybody,
Just trying to move on, having accepted that nothing is going to happen for my G4 to run CW on OSX.
So, question: has anyone tried to use Scope on an OS9 VNC server piloted from an OSX computer????