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Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:24 am

Now of course, blame me, ridicule me. You'll have the last word, as usual.

Man, have you got some issues to work through.

Bifop · Post by **Bifop** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:19 am

Hi GaryB, thanks for answering. You're always elegantly getting out of these words/mind batlles. Good on you. That would explain your longevity here, beside your commitment to this platform we all know.

Of course I feel targeted, like probably most users here that post in favor of a (dream mode on) slightly enhanced XTC mode.

The only answer from the "Commitee of Wises" here has always been, "This mode is crap, get away from it. It was a mistake from Creamware."
Despite this, I've gone around lately telling everybody the good I think of Creamware's products. Most of the people I show my system to, are using a host software and would be interested to work in XTC mode, at least partially. I've had numerous private messages here on Planetz when we had this talk about tweaking the xtcproject.pro. Much more users are interested in the XTC mode than what you seem to think.

The problem is this opposition most prominent PlanetZ users have toward this mode. Since you guys are the more vocal group here, it gives the false impression that XTC is BS or for starters only...

Gary, you're main thinking line is something like ; customers are too spoiled today. They are trapped in the "more for more" policy. Never satisfied and not learning to use the tools they have... (When you work or did work for a long time in a music shop or doing audio related customer service, you end up putting everybody in the same bag thinking "they're all the same lazy demanding bunch". "Music is getting nowhere".. Etc. Desillusion I call it.)

Wich I would mostly agree on. But where IMO you're coming to the wrong conclusion is when you include people using XTC mode. It is a conscious choice ! It's not because we can't cope with the complexity, but because we don't want to.

I have a passion for music and today's computerized music tools that never diminished since I was a teenager. I still see with amazement what I have now and my main concern these last years was (and still strongly is) learning the JOBS that go with these tools. Doing this, you have to make shortcuts on some bits here and there if you want to be really good at what you do.
One of my main concern is being proficient in what I do. It took me ages to be sort of satisfied with what I can compose, I'm only starting to be pleased with the mixes I can render. I am debuting to work in post (dubbing AND/OR composing). I concentrate on one main interface for composing, arranging, routing, plug & synths inserting, automating etc.. Of course I'm limiting myself doing so. But since the possibilities are already endless inside Nuendo with the CWA cards, the included plugs, the UAD-1, the outboard gear and the mind, I don't need more.

As an example, I wanted to get John Bowen's excellent Solaris Core but then I tried Celmo's Blue Wave synth. That'll be the one I buy for now since it's is so simple and sounds so beautifully that I know I'm going to use it a lot. It inspires me.

Anyway, it is the very last time I post about xtc here. Better avoid the subject for me, than getting hot blooded about a tool I'm using everyday in it's present form.

No wishes, no novelty, no income, no market.
I love this idea a lot actually !!!

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:52 am

On 2006-01-11 02:13, Bifop wrote:
I totally disagree with GaryB, Astroman Stardust and Nestor... As usual I would say...

This is very strange, as the only common denominator in the list above is that each person likes his Scope system, but posts from completely different viewpoints.

As I'm doing my business in the computer industry and software developement I have a few experiences (made over 20 years) that alot of readers couldn't have made - for the simple fact that they were in kindergarten when I was promoting Macs as the next big thing

I often find a 'truth' or 'betterknowing' interpreted into my posts that I do not intend - I'm not even interested in and don't give a sh*t if anyone considers me smart or an idiot here.

Yet I have SEEN (a lot of) systems come and go, as well as changing of programming paradigms and customer relationships.
I contribute some of that experience - nothing else.
If someone considers this arrogance then a little more effort by himself applies, as that's the typical way a personal lack of knowledge is denied

you may have noticed that a lot of my post have to do with the economic base of developements.

Someone who requests 'write a driver, bastards !' may not consider those circumstances, let alone that 95% have no idea at all what that means.
I am not accusing the person who requests it, I do not defend CWA - I just name the hard facts: TIME & MONEY.

You may have noticed that I represent a totally conservative hardware attitude - and that my position often deviates from GaryB's

Since I've been part of this industry for decades, I'm immune to their attempts of suggesting what's latest and greatest.
You don't need to read (or follow) these advices - it's not my cash anyway - but they may help to define your own position if you're about to invest into something.

what separates a pro from an amateur ?

the first one gets a job done regardless of conditions, and THEN adjusts his environment according to experience - to be more efficient.

He's doing it for maximising profit and knows that about the necessity of investments.
He'll never change a working system without a reason and definetely NOT during an important project.

He's getting paid for RESULTS
if that includes artistry, fine - otherwise it's a matter of taste.
Instead of 'good' or 'bad' there's just 'appropriate'.

cheers, Tom

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:21 am

As a "stockyard elder" you know that all I want to say here is: "Mooooooooo"

But seriously bifops, if you want to use XTC go ahead. I think a common feeling was that it was never fully developed and so had neither the strengths of the Scope environment or the ease of being a true VSTi.

But others report that it has worked fine for them. It's not really an issue is it ? If it works for you then use it...

robi79 · Post by **robi79** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:43 am

[/quote]
what separates a pro from an amateur ?

the first one gets a job done regardless of conditions, [...]

He's doing it for maximising profit and knows that about the necessity of investments.
He'll never change a working system without a reason and definetely NOT during an important project.

He's getting paid for RESULTS
[...]

cheers, Tom
[/quote]

Then get the job "new 64bit drivers, fixing the software" done regardless if there are 2, 50 or 10000 employees and remember the necessity of investments.
Do it for maximising profit and ... Who will buy a new PCI Card today in times of firewire, PCIe etc when everything points to there will be not even new drivers for it. (BTW I'm not calling anyone a bastard here)
It seems as there are far too many reasons to act.

So decide what you want to be, pro or amateur?!

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:11 am

Then get the job "new 64bit drivers, fixing the software" done regardless if there are 2, 50 or 10000 employees and remember the necessity of investments.

Do you want to tell him or shall i?

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:19 am

Hello Befop!

Man, don’t be angry or feel bad…

I have no intentions to bother you at all, really.

I feel my system like if it was a girlfriend, and if you look at her and say something bad when I know she’s beautiful, I react a bit, but it’s not something serious, is like joking between friends you know, with people who like the same you like, making music.

I detest conflict and attacking. I may be a daring person,

, but not a violent one, don’t like it, except if it justifies something truly important and with no other solution

I am quite far from being a super knowledgeable guy as you suggest, I wish I was… I know what I need to know for making music my way, but I am not an academic scientist of similar, at all. My background is that I have been a band musician, composer and session studio musician for about 27 years now; I’ve got to know “the sound” of things and went through the process of an analogue to digital musician, with all the advantages of the old school getting to the new one. As Astroman, I don’t feel bad because of my experience, it is there and is real, and I am glad I’ve gone through this beautiful process.

There are well formed engineers here that have posted perhaps 10 to 100 times and they know much more than several of us posting much, in terms of gear, programming instruments, etc., but nobody is wiser because it posts lots of posts… this is your only appreciation.

As I understand it, the ones that have more posts are just more passionate about Pulsar, or have more spare time to spend. I have many posts because I love being here, not because I am an expert.

Please, keep talking about what you believe, feel and follow; nobody will shut you up, ever… in this forum. The Z is a special world. If I were to say I know something more than you, this would be about the spirit of the Z forum… we love each other here as we are a group of friends, come and join us for the fun of it! Let your sword at the entrance, this is not a battle place, and get to the Z castle, you are very welcomed!

BTW: I truly think you should let off XTC mode and start using SFP normal mode

Post by **hubird** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:23 am

@ Bifop, who said I really wonder who is doing MUSIC with these cards here. I'm not talking boing boing zap turn the reso knob bs....

If I was on your list of 'patronizers', I wouldn't feel upset so much by your words in your protest post (closed mind attitude of some of us, etc.).

But the quote above here really makes me suspect you're a typical prepossessed amateuristic XTC-VST junk who thinks that 'passion' is reserved for oldstyle instrumentalists...
Put me on your list my friend...

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:52 am

Hey, don't forget to 'round up' or 'herd' together & sweepingly generalise all those who prefer a bit of the old strum strum twang, turn up the phaser

robi79 · Post by **robi79** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:48 am

On 2006-01-11 07:11, Mr Arkadin wrote:
Then get the job "new 64bit drivers, fixing the software" done regardless if there are 2, 50 or 10000 employees and remember the necessity of investments.
Do you want to tell him or shall i?

I meant "them" (Creamware) not "him" (astroman)

robi

Tuccos · Post by **Tuccos** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:04 pm

Pro, Amateur or whatever, they all payed cash for the purposes that CW offered them.

Someone payed 5000 Euro the other payed 15000 euros and maybe spent 500 Euros.

Its a matter of principals for a good company, CW ruined their reputation for em and many music colleges.

I have the cards now and i will use them until my computer has no more slots where they fit in.

But i promise i wont ever buy any CW hardware again for my whole life.

The CW people are Amateurs that produce Pro Equiptment. Sad as it is.

Since 3-4 years they havent upgraded their drivers !!

not Even Hoontech or Creative Labs is so damn lousy. And these 2 are already worse than terrible.

Even if a company sells something for 5 euro they have to support the product.

CW does not do that, they just plain suck.

And i say it again if some relaxed weed smoking people here use the SFP mode, thats fine.

I bought my cards for the XTC mode and nothing else.

They advertised the XTC modus and i trusted them, it was a mistake as we all can see.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:05 pm

as I didn't adress you, robi79 (personally) with the 'write the driver, bastard!' suggestion

but it should be clear that Bifop had audio 'pros' in mind in his original post - and I referred to THEM as people who have to make a living, be it their passion or just a paid job.

nevertheless, if you want to extend the statement to software engineering then I can assure you that CWA definetely doesn't qualify as 'professional' in that context

Be glad that it isn't so and they keep doing their business the anachronistic way.
Maximising profit in this business looks completely different than what we experienced from CWA the last years...

Well, at least it looks like they still stick to it (at least partly), though there's evidence that a change is about to come...
Probably not be the most pleasant surprise to some of the complainers here

Don't get me wrong - it's perfectly OK to point out flaws and possible improvements in a system.
But they are not god who's capable to send the change from heaven - they have to work it out.
It takes time, human resources and money, plus a business plan that weighs investments versus possible returns.
It IS NOT funny today - that stuff is messy to a degree that I wouldn't want to be involved in it under no conditions.
As mentioned, I've done stuff like that for several years but conditions were much, much clearer back then - and schedules not even half as tight as they are today.

cheers, tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-01-11 12:08 ]

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:22 pm

And i say it again if some relaxed weed smoking people here use the SFP mode, thats fine.

Ah i love a good generalisation. Actually i am relaxed (i'll live longer) but i don't smoke weed. The sooner you ditch your cards the better i think, then you don't have to bother us anymore.

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2006-01-11 12:23 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:26 pm

On 2006-01-11 12:15, stardust wrote:
... "kilopost mafia"

that's a good one

to be honest, I'm totally selfish in writing all these posts.
It only serves to improve my humble english - one day I'll write a book and you'll all appear in the credits...

cheers, tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-01-11 12:27 ]

Post by **garyb** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:25 pm

btw-xtc mode works for me as well.

Tuccos · Post by **Tuccos** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:33 pm

XTC works fine.......

You still cant enter Field Values like BPM data into delay effects and you tell me it works fine ??

You cant use HT under Steinberg Software or you get Crackles when editing Samples or working on Sample edits.

no offense but these 2 things are so easy to fix and CW had no time for that ??

The result is that i cant use Delay, Step Seq or BPM calculated Plugins because i cant change the Values in Nuendo/cubase.

About HT, theres is an improvement if HT is enabled. Some people try to cheat the truth away it seems. Many applications run 10-20% faster with HT activated.

Just because CW is to lazy to Fix their bloody old drivers, i have to disable HT all time, otherwise i had to change it in my BIOS all time.

Hey i dont even know why i still talk here, maybe in the hope that one of these lazy CW developers wakes up and gives himself a kick and starts to bring the drivers to actual standards.

CW is a bunch of lazy people for me, they act like that as developers, their Updates are lazy Software Bundels filled up with .dll´s of 2002.

Forget it, forget CW. these guys are past. at least for me.

The few fans they seem to have here arent enough to keep a company running, and the other fact is, you guys already bought your cards and hardware.

THIS IS CREAMWARE FOR ME >>>>>

CREAMWARE = BOUGHT,FORGOTTEN AND LEFT ALONE.

Not more not less.

They should be ashamed.

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:41 pm

Wire coat hangers! Wire coat hangers!
What are wire hangers doing in here?!

I know someone with a Yamaha SW1000XG card that would like to trade. You won't find getting support so difficult.

[ This Message was edited by: Liquid Len on 2006-01-11 15:49 ]

Post by **hubird** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:42 pm

YOU should be ashamed for your stupid insultancies.
You don't seem to have a possibility to see the context of the why's, even when it's explained here.
You're just like a child that is missing the fantasy to understand that another colour for his icecream tastes as well.
Sell your stuff, and buy readymade music, why would you try to do that by yourself, it takes too much time anyway.
Yerrh.

Post by **garyb** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:02 pm

text values cannot be entered on the plugin in xtc mode, it's true. they CAN be entered in the track automation, which is very EASY. what's not easy, it to make it work the way you want it to. that's why it's the way it is. i repeat, you CAN enter those text values in the track automation....

ht is a bunch of bs, i disable it as a matter of course, even though it usually works, because i value stability.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:12 pm

Hey i dont even know why i still talk here

That's the first sensible suggestion you've made so far - hope you follow through.