Spectral Balance Controller!??!

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:59 am

On 2005-12-04 07:41, erminardi wrote:
In the mastering chain, where is correct, fot you, to put the "SBC - Spectral Balance Controller"?

Here my hypotetical chain:
1) GraphEQ
2) SBC
3) Optimaster
4) PSYQ

It's right? Any comment?
Thanks.

There is no absolute rule.

It depends on the inner qualities (and/or defects) of the basic sound. For which accurate listening and accurate analysis is important.

It depends on the musical style.

It depends on the projected use (Audio CD?... Vinyl?... Radio?... DVD?...).

Be aware that SBC, Optimaster and Psy-Q have integrated limiters (softclip...). Don't limit several time on several stages, you could create distorsions that you could not immediately accurately detect. Your ears could be fooled. Stay with only one limiter, and bypass the others.

Sorry to sound criticizing again, but how come that Optimaster has 3 frequency bands, where all multiband compressors in the market have at least four bands?... Can't understand this. I've sold my Optimaster a long time ago. But you can use it, nevertheless.

GraphEQ is not a mastering tool. Good for live sound reinforcement, but not for mastering.

So, you understand that I think there is no powerful mastering tools within the Creamware's plugins, except the Psy-Q that can be useful. Maybe I should stop writing about that.

General advice: work at a constant acoustic level, not loud (85 dB SPL). When a process increases the volume, lower your overall level accordingly, to always listen to the same level. Don't let your ears be fooled by a level increase.

[ This Message was edited by: Grok on 2005-12-04 21:37 ]

Stige · Post by **Stige** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:54 am

On 2005-12-04 07:41, erminardi wrote:
In the mastering chain, where is correct, fot you, to put the "SBC - Spectral Balance Controller"?

Here my hypotetical chain:
1) GraphEQ
2) SBC
3) Optimaster
4) PSYQ

It's right? Any comment?
Thanks.

If you are using the Optimaster as a final mastering limiter to boost your signal, I'd recommend to put it last in your chain.

PsyQ is more like a tonal shaping/enchancing tool.

I don't really know how is SBC working, but IMHO, personally I'd avoid using several band separation tools in a mastering chain.
But as always, there are no rules. Sometimes phase shifting may sound good.

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:18 pm

Grok is spot on with almost every detail.

My preference (using the tools you have at your disposal) would normally be to use just Optimaster or to use PsyQ before Optimaster & that's all, but of course as mentioned, there are *no rules*. So for example, if you're working on a spacial ambient track, you may want to insert a MasterVerb Pro between PsyQ & optimaster ... or whatever

How do you find SBC then ??

Grok · Post by **Grok** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:27 pm

On 2005-12-02 06:00, garyb wrote:
"real" mastering engineers use custom made, top quality hardware compressors and eqs. they don't use vst plugins. bargain basement guys use vsts.....

Look at this ("absolute best EQ in the world", 1000$ only, 30 days to try it with full features):
http://refinedaudiometrics.com/pages/16/index.htm

In the same page, there is an offer for the same EQ with only 3 bands, 3-band PLParEQ, should be taken.

Post by **garyb** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:44 pm

pretty nice, huh?

Post by **hubird** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:46 pm

only windowz.

ChampionSound · Post by **ChampionSound** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:38 am

On 2005-12-02 16:29, marcuspocus wrote:
bug included...

Yep, seems there is something weird with the 1st and 2nd fader... They are affecting respectively left and right, can't use them...

Yep, I'd like to confirm this!

I just played a little with th SBC.

- When boosting or cutting the first band, the gain of the right channel is way more reacting on this boost or cut than the left channel.
The first band boosts/cuts at approximately 160 Hz

- When boosting or cutting the second band, the gain of the left channel is way more reacting on this boost or cut than the right channel.
The second band boosts/cuts at the same frequency as the first band! (approximately 160 Hz). Must be a bug.

- The 3rd (approx. 400 Hz), 4th (approx. 1 kHz), 5th (approx. 5 kHz)and 6th band (approx. 12,5 kHz) seem to have no problem concerning the panning.

- An other thing I noticed, was that the output level is much lower than the input signal. Even if the input fader is set to 0 dB toghther with all the faders of all bands and the output fader set all to 0 dB. So the values of the margins of the output signal (in dB) are incorrect

Only if the output fader is set to about + 12 dB, the perceived loudness becomes equal compared to the bypassed signal.
But in order to create more headroom, especially when boosting a freq band, I noticed that attenuating the input signal first will reduce distortion/clipping of a certain freq band.

- The limiters seem to distort/clip quite easy. I'm not sure if this is a bug, or maybe I should bring down the input level a little bit more.

The bug of the first two bands should be fixed to begin with.

I'm not quite convinced with the overall soundquality yet. It feels like I can hear some phasing going on due to the crossover filters when everything is set to unity gain (0 dB).
Still think that this device can be very useful for individual tracks or groups if the bugs are gone.
To use it in the mastering chain, I'm not sure about that yet...

My 0,02c

cheers Darce

djmicron · Post by **djmicron** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:26 am

So, you understand that I think there is no powerful mastering tools within the Creamware's plugins, except the Psy-Q that can be useful

i do not agree to this, the speqtrum is a great mastering eq, the optimaster is very smooth as i like, the psy q and the celmo subbassbooster pro have replaced some of my outboard.
I agree about the sbc and it's not so good on mastering and it have some bug to fix.

Sorry to sound criticizing again, but how come that Optimaster has 3 frequency bands, where all multiband compressors in the market have at least four bands?... Can't understand this. I've sold my Optimaster a long time ago. But you can use it, nevertheless.

If you need a multiband compressor with more bands, you can use a little trick, open a mixer and connect the same audio source to the number of channels you need to compress and inside each channel insert a low cut and a high cut filter and set each channel to a specified frequency range and use your preferred compressor such as vinco, this is an old mastering method used by many mastering engineers .
i'm not a mastering engineer, but i like optimaster very much, i do my mixes with attention to every mixer channel and i don't need to change too much on my master, so, optimaster is great because the result is louder but without the classical square wave of the pop cd's.
I have done many tests, using the waves stuff, the samplitude stuff and some other mastering tool, but on dsp sharks it is different .
But, i cut the most of my tracks on vinyl, so, the important thing is to make good mixes with a little enhancement and the rest is a work for the mastering engineer

If in the future i'll decide of making a mastering studio, i'm sure, i'll go for sadie, sonic solutions or spl...

[ This Message was edited by: djmicron on 2005-12-07 11:27 ]

Wired · Post by **Wired** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:49 pm

i got it, its great, and the forum is induplicious. Good things can arise from this tool, and thats what it is, many of the forum members use all sorts of stuff, but this quickens and educates the eyes and ears

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:20 pm

On 2005-12-06 19:46, hubird wrote:
only windowz.

No Hubird, if you read more, it says that money from early 'offer' contributions has already paid for one of the most advanced cross-compiler systems in the world. .. IE very advanced cross-platform compiling

Same guy developes on a Soundart Chameleon, which is interesting.... If you're interested in programming synths & Pro Audio apps that is !! Most of us probably talk too much to program shit tho, so whatever

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:13 am

This is a 2 Band Xover insert slot, if you insert 2 of them in the slots of another one, you have 4 bands to load compressors like Vinco or also different FX....I find it useful in it's simple 2 bands form, expecially for individual tracks, for example a bass could benefit of a compressor on the low range and some chorus only in the high range.

It's an extremely flexible tool.

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... orum=16&15

erminardi · Post by **erminardi** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:35 am

I (and many other mastering eng, like i.e. Harbal's programmer) think that the mid-high and high bands (like in Wave's LinMB i.e.) is an exagerated splitting because these frequencies are often hard to control and less important in overall master sound.
In this way in Optimaster these freqencies are treated in same mode (no crossover).
In my opinion Optimaster (3 bands) is a LOT better sounding than native Waves LinMB (4 bands) and other similar available plugs in market...

Kymeia · Post by **Kymeia** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:33 am

I've got my keys now and a download link but can't seem to find the oxe for the SBC on the ftp and it's not inside the zip for all the oxes either. I don't plan to run the installer for scope 4.5 as I'd rather avoid the potential upset to my system - I just need the new plugins.

dbmac · Post by **dbmac** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:43 pm

SBC is part of the 4.5 package. No oxe, just the device and dsp files and preset file. You can find the files in the zip.

/dave

Kymeia · Post by **Kymeia** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:54 pm

Right - I wonder if it will work if I just copy it across then?

Kymeia · Post by **Kymeia** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:01 pm

Ok found it. Now I can't find the plugin called GraphEQ - there's one called 31 band eq - i that it?

(edit - found and installed it but it says its not registered even though I imported allkeys - I thought it was included?)

Also I found a couple of earleir versions of Proone and since I have Protone I thought it might let me run them but when I ran the oxe the plugins just vanished and don't seem to be anywhere in Scope

[ This Message was edited by: Kymeia on 2005-12-13 14:24 ]

firubbi · Post by **firubbi** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:46 am

On 2005-12-02 06:00, garyb wrote:
"real" mastering engineers use custom made, top quality hardware compressors and eqs. they don't use vst plugins. bargain basement guys use vsts.....

must be

http://www.manleylabs.com/Manley_mastering.html

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:15 am

I don't know about using SBC for mastering, but it's pretty sweet on individual tracks =P It seems to have SoftClip built into each band, cuz driving bands into clipping sounds pretty good.

Anyone know the finer details? Is it linear phase/phase attenuated? On what I tried it on (fairly synthetic material mind you), it sounded way nice even at extreme settings (one band at 0 and the other at max.)

Try it it's fun! It reminded me a bit of QuadraFuzz, although much smoother.

Wired · Post by **Wired** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:43 pm

any other info on the insides of the SBC, it seems they don't want you fooling around with the crossover freq on this one, if its balanced, thats ok, but are there effective limiters in there, thus not needing the optimaster?

Post by **hubird** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:49 pm

a limiter is not a compressor, unless you meant only the limiter part of it