False advertising?

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:00 pm

This isn't another "I hate the plugin package" thread. This is about CW's driver claims.

They claim that Scope 4.5 comes with WDM drivers compatible with Sonar. THEY'RE NOT. The drivers have NEVER WORKED AT ALL. Blue screens, mislabled I/Os, flakey performance, hangs and pauses with multiple I/Os, the list goes on. ASIO works OK for the most part (has anyone else ever had clicks and pops when you're running several track envelopes in Sonar?), but ASIO isn't WDM. If I were looking at CreamWare's site for the first time, I'd be excited to see such a great-looking product ship with compatible drivers that are fast, stable, and reliable as they claim. Then, when I got the card, I'd find out that the drivers are completely unusable and do not work as advertised.

For quite a long time CWA didn't claim they had WDM drivers. They said "MME, ASIO, GSIF, etc..." It's only recently they started to add WDM to their list, and there has not been a driver update since 2002.

How do other Sonar users feel about this? Am I the only one who's a little upset here?

Shayne

P.S. When I say "WDM," I'm referring to Kernel Streaming.

_________________
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[ This Message was edited by: Shayne White on 2005-12-06 23:01 ]

valis · Post by **valis** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:06 am

Kernel streaming is an extension to WDM, but WDM doesn't necessarily mean kernel streaming. WDM simply means conformance to the general driver model set out in Win98SE, so that there was general compatibility across 98SE/ME/Win2k (unlike the different drivers needed for NT and Win9x before that).

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:36 am

Yes, but they've been saying "WDM compatible with Sonar," which is Kernel-Streaming and Kernel-Streaming only.

djmicron · Post by **djmicron** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:14 am

Shayne,
why using wdm?
Sonar is asio compatible and i know it's ok with the scope drivers.

[ This Message was edited by: djmicron on 2005-12-07 10:48 ]

Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:23 am

I agree with Shayne...
regardless of what is best best drivers to use with Scope. CWA should not announce that their Platform support WDM drivers.

MME/ASIO/GSIF drivers is ALL what the platform support.

djmicron · Post by **djmicron** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:49 am

i think it's a sonar issue, because using samplitude the wdm drivers are ok, but i think asio is better for audio.

[ This Message was edited by: djmicron on 2005-12-07 10:49 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:19 pm

WDM doesn't work better in sonar with RME or Tascam here actually, i've abbandonned sonar for it's flakey performance, not because of cw wdm driver (which are flakey too to say the least).

Sonar suck...

Project5 v2 suck even more!

sorry

okantah · Post by **okantah** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:28 pm

CW aproach to the market this time attracting heavy heavy poisonous snakes.

ali · Post by **ali** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:31 pm

Shayne

I pointed this out to head office and it is fixed. You are right it should not say WDM.

However sometimes mistake like this may take longer to correct as the new site is still being built by a non creamware team in another country with different time Zone.

Please send me notes if you see any major errors. and I will have CWA work on fixing them.

thanks again for pointing this out.

MD69 · Post by **MD69** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:50 pm

Hi Ali,

Could you ask for a clarification for PowerPulsar owner.
In the update ads, they refer to hardware (14 DSP) which mean -> Professional update, but if we think licence based (previous way to upgrade) the Scope project update apply

PS: Harmony Central missed the MADI interface

Best regards
Michel

doodyrh · Post by **doodyrh** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:29 pm

More false advertising:
The web site displays a 'Community' link but there isn't one.
Why not replace it with a 'Software Upgrade' link, but keep the 'this site is under construction' message?

Post by **irrelevance** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:00 pm

On 2005-12-07 14:29, doodyrh wrote:
More false advertising:
The web site displays a 'Community' link but there isn't one.
Why not replace it with a 'Software Upgrade' link, but keep the 'this site is under construction' message?

Sarcasm I hope?

ali · Post by **ali** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:28 pm

On 2005-12-07 13:50, MD69 wrote:
Hi Ali,

Could you ask for a clarification for PowerPulsar owner.
In the update ads, they refer to hardware (14 DSP) which mean -> Professional update, but if we think licence based (previous way to upgrade) the Scope project update apply

PS: Harmony Central missed the MADI interface

Best regards
Michel

Michel

PowerPulsar does not equal to Scope Prof in software. Unless you got the MnM & SnS with your powerpulsar. then it will be considered Scope Prof.

Please note that regardless of what you have in terms of cards:
(Luna/LunaII/Elektra/Powersampler/PowerSampler II/Pulsar 1/Pulsar II/PowerPulsar/Scope SP/Scope Home/Scope Project and/Scope Professional

you will get the Scope 4.5 version software that will ship as the basic/main Scope software when the new 4.5 packages start to show up at your nearest dealer in Jan 2006.

What is the basic/main Scope Software 4.5 that ships with new cards in 2006?

Main Studiotools Package
Effects Package 1 & 2
Synth Package 1 & 2
Mixer Package 1 & 2
STS-4000, Modular II, SB404, Poison, Master Verb Pro, EQ31, SPL16, SBC.
*******************************************

If you already own Synth & Sampler Pack with your card, the card's software will get upgraded with the new Synth & Sampler.

same thing applies if you already own the Mix & Master.
****************************************
If you own Pulsar 1, on the other hand, and you don't own any of the SnS or MnM, I am afraid you don't get the pack with the basic/main 4.5 version.

(official until X-mas)If you own Pulsar II/PowerPulsar and upgrade to 4.5 you get and only until X-mas one of the SnS or MnM packs. (However I may come back to edit this if I am wrong).

If you own Scope Home card with v 4.0 you will get what I listed in 4.5.

If you own (bought) Scope Project with Scope 4.0 (with 1 of the Packs) you get the 4.5 and the pack get upgraded to the new one (be it MnM or SnS)

If you own (bought) Scope Profesional card with Scope 4.0 you get the 4.5 and the 2 packs get upgraded to the new ones

I hope this clears it a bit.
Try to cross check your keys and board's type/name and hope you come to a better understanding of what you get with the upgrade.

[ This Message was edited by: ali on 2005-12-07 17:07 ]

[ This Message was edited by: ali on 2005-12-12 15:34 ]

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:52 pm

Nicely explained, thanks ali

MD69 · Post by **MD69** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:00 pm

Thanks a lot Ali for your explanations,
You made my day

I'll recheck your message for further informations.

Have a nice Xmas

Michel

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:33 am

On 2005-12-07 16:28, ali wrote:

(unofficial)If you own Pulsar II/PowerPulsar and upgrade to 4.5 you get and only until X-mas one of the SnS or MnM packs. (However I may come back to edit this if I am wrong).

would it be possible to confirm/defirm this as soon as possible?

thanks for your input ali

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:36 am

(unofficial)If you own Pulsar II/PowerPulsar and upgrade to 4.5 you get and only until X-mas one of the SnS or MnM packs. (However I may come back to edit this if I am wrong).

If it's true, i want my pack!

I bougth the update the day it was annonced, i have a Pulsar2 with propack, synth pack 1&2, effects pack 1&2, but didn't receive the complete SnS pack when i updated...

Stige · Post by **Stige** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:23 am

Yet another round of 'what comes with what' chaos is about to begin. Enjoy your ride

Where can we find reliable information, as even CW own website can't offer that.

Perhaps the only way to find things out is 'buy and see' method, as many have already done.
Not the best way though.

[ This Message was edited by: Stige on 2005-12-08 06:24 ]

ScofieldKid · Post by **ScofieldKid** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:08 am

If I buy a Scope Project today... then I would miss the v4.5.

So I should wait until January to order a new card, correct?

(Thanks for the help, Ali.)

ali · Post by **ali** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:18 am

if you buy a scope project today from a dealer(brand new & unregistered) you will get to upgrade it free to 4.5.

you can email ralf with the SN and a small description of what you bought.

If you are buying in the USA/Canada you can check with me.

[ This Message was edited by: ali on 2005-12-08 09:27 ]