STM 2448

garygiles · Post by **garygiles** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:54 am

I have 1 very simple and basic request, to be able to route an input channel on the STM 2448 to any or all output or mix buses. This should be very simple to do I would have thought and very basic. Because I am not able to do this makes the STM 2448 useless for me and my projects. Has anyone come up with a simple solution to this problem?

_________________
CueOne
Studio 19
Brockley Cross Business Centre
96 Endwell Road
London SE4 2PD

Tel: 020 7277 9933
Mob: 0778 5564 281
Email: gary@cueone.co.uk
Web: http://www.cueone.co.uk

[ This Message was edited by: garygiles on 2005-11-16 10:56 ]

[ This Message was edited by: garygiles on 2005-12-05 00:17 ]

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:26 am

I'm trying to understand what's your problem...I fear I don't, but anyway..

In Scope any signal can be routed to multiple inputs.
In stm 2448 each channel can be sent to the mix buss and to a recording bus, exactly as in every professional mixer in the world,a signal can feed as many channels as you need. There is also a monitor circuit where you can send the channels and then you can enable individual channel outs for more exoteric routings.

Every path is switchable, so you can have multiple channels fed by one signal, each one to a different recording bus, different fx and if you want only one dry to the mix bus...

Scope is the top of the routing possibilities compared to any other system in the world, hardware or software, maybe you should check the manuals.

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:30 pm

Yeah, I'm not quite sure what issues you are running into, but here's a quick tutorial on how you might do things.

First there's the Bus setup page:

This will let you send each channel to any of the 8 busses (in bunches of 2 for stereo signals.)

If you need to send an input to more than one output, you can use some of the Aux signal paths by setting them as "external":

The signals will be output thru the "Aux" outputs at the bottom. You can then send any of the inputs to any number of the Aux outputs.

The Aux trick will only output mono signals tho, so if you need stereo, and/or if your Aux are already used/filled, you can use the DirectOuputs functionality:

You can then submix any of the signals in any desired way using the smaller mixers:

Check the device sections for simple 3rd party mixers if you don't have the micromixer/dynamicmixer. There's one by j9k (called mega micromixer or something similar I believe) that has 8 stereo inputs and very low DSP usage that's pretty nice.

If you don't want to use additional mixers, you can combine the first and third trick. First activate the Direct Outputs, then forward a channel output back to an unused STM2448 channel. You can then send that channel to an additional Bus Output (you can mute/deactivate it if you don't want it to be mixed into the mixer's main mix output.)

There's also the Monitor/Ctrl stuff that can be used as an additional stereo output if you don't already use it.

But yeah, definitely check the manual, it's all in there =P.

If you need more help, post more informations on your setup (i.e. what kind/how many signals, from where/to where, are your Aux occupied, etc.)

edit: fixed the [img] tags etc

[ This Message was edited by: symbiote on 2005-11-16 13:31 ]

Post by **hubird** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:55 pm

cool

garygiles · Post by **garygiles** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:45 am

Hi

1st of all, apologizes for the late reply. I never received an email informing of any replies to my topic.

Yes you can route STM2448 to a mix bus but not to any individual bus or all busses from the 1 input channel. . Yes I can use the aux sends but this is not enough outputs. In an ideal world I would like 16 Aux sends from each channel but I know this is not achievable. So I want to be able to send an input channel to any bus or a selection of buses or even all the buses if I wanted. At the moment I can only seem to be able to route an input channel to only 1 pair of buses. If I am missing something here please do put me right. But if this is the case this is what I meant by writing, This should be very simple to do I would have thought and very basic, because this can be achieved by any sound console I have used over the past 22 years.

I want to use the scope cards in the theatre environment where flexible routing is of the up most. I believe creamware products would have a great future in theatre if the routing could be sorted out.

Again if I am missing something here I would be very grateful if you could point me in the right direction.

Thanks for the your replys.

Regards,

Gary Giles

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:36 am

As I said you can connect any output to multiple inputs, there is no need to send a channel to multiple busses, you can have a bus out connected to as many devices as you need, or a signal feeding as many mixer channels you need.
You can also use "Channel" devices to have individual control to duplicated signals.

garygiles · Post by **garygiles** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:58 am

Very sorry but this all seems more complicated than it should be.

Alfonso
As I said you can connect any output to multiple inputs

Does this require more than 1 mixer? Or are you’re saying route an output back into a spare channel on the same desk?

Alfonso
there is no need to send a channel to multiple busses.

There is a need as I want to be able to route say a reverb effect to multiple outputs.

Alfonso
You can also use "Channel" devices to have individual control to duplicated signals.

Sorry this all seems to me over complicated just for me to be able to route to an individual channel to multiple outputs.

Again if I am missing something I apologize.

Is it possible for you to send me a screen shot of your ideas?

Regards

Gary

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:28 am

On 2005-11-20 08:58, garygiles wrote:
Very sorry but this all seems more complicated than it should be.

>>>>I ensure you it's easier than it seems.

Alfonso
As I said you can connect any output to multiple inputs

Does this require more than 1 mixer? Or are you’re saying route an output back into a spare channel on the same desk?

>>>>You can simply route a synth or an asio source or whatever to multiple mixer channels, any output can go to multiple inputs. No need for more mixers.

Alfonso
there is no need to send a channel to multiple busses.

There is a need as I want to be able to route say a reverb effect to multiple outputs.

>>>>>route that single bus to all the destinations you need. Like above, any output can be cabled to as many inputs you need.

Alfonso
You can also use "Channel" devices to have individual control to duplicated signals.

Sorry this all seems to me over complicated just for me to be able to route to an individual channel to multiple outputs.

>>>> I was just pointing to the Single channel device (like a 1 channel mixer) that can be found in the Mixer folder and can be useful if you want to have separate control on a certain signal, but if you just connect your synth outs to many channels of the 2448 mixer you can have the same individual control.

Again if I am missing something I apologize.

Is it possible for you to send me a screen shot of your ideas?

>>>>>Can't now, just connect your sound source to many mixer channels, or better the bus output to all the destinations you need.

I hope it's clear...

Ciao.

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:33 am

Ha, if you route a synth to multiple channels, you can disable all channels but one in the Mix channel, so you don't have to listen to the sum of all the inputs.

garygiles · Post by **garygiles** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:07 pm

On 2005-11-20 08:58, garygiles wrote:
Very sorry but this all seems more complicated than it should be.

>>>>I ensure you it's easier than it seems.

Alfonso
As I said you can connect any output to multiple inputs

Does this require more than 1 mixer? Or are you’re saying route an output back into a spare channel on the same desk?

>>>>You can simply route a synth or an asio source or whatever to multiple mixer channels, any output can go to multiple inputs. No need for more mixers.

>>>>> This seems a waste of input channels to be able to route a device to multiple outputs.

I hope it's clear...

>>>>>>>>>>I think it is clear to me that you and I come from very different backgrounds. I’m guessing here that your background is studio based where you only need to route an input channels to 1 stereo group. I come from a live theatre background where we are dealing with multiple speaker systems. The creamware devices have to be as simple as any live sound automated console we use. I just don’t understand why the routing in the bus select is not the same as any other console I have used where you can select more that just 1 stereo pair of buses. There is no console I have used restricts to that and believe me I have used a few over the years.

All the suggestions I have heard so far seem to me complicated work rounds to something that should be very simple.

When I get system back from the show it’s on at the moment I will do some screen shots for you.

Regards

Gary

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:57 pm

What about routing your bus out or your mix out to all the speakers?

How many speakers do you use? Did you check the Surround mixers?

Post by **garyb** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:20 pm

On 2005-11-20 12:07, garygiles wrote:
There is no console I have used restricts to that and believe me I have used a few over the years.Gary

gee, i don't know....

since any output can feed more than one input, why not just connect the source that you need to send somewhere else to the mixer AND wherever else it needs to go, directly? you could also use the channels direct outs to do this. i think your thinking is too limited, unlike the real world, multiple y connections cause no decline in sound quality. the record busses are a mere convienience....

garygiles · Post by **garygiles** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:24 pm

Hi

I had a quick look at the surround mixers. Not enough outputs and no stereo inserts on the input channels. I really need to be able to have the flexible routing for different presets.

Regards

Gary

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:16 pm

On 2005-11-20 13:24, garygiles wrote:
Hi

I had a quick look at the surround mixers. Not enough outputs

>>>>>>on STM48S you can have 8.1, not enough?

and no stereo inserts on the input channels.

>>>>> If you look well adiacent channels can be linked and they share then insert slots that load stereo fx. each side mantains the surround panpot.

I really need to be able to have the flexible routing for different presets.

>>>>No other system has more flexible routing, it just needs a bit of manual reading to learn the features.

djmicron · Post by **djmicron** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:05 pm

it's true that with stm mixers you can not assign more than one bus to the same channel, but using the direct outputs, you can use a dynamic mixer as a bus addon to your stm....

Micron

garygiles · Post by **garygiles** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:17 pm

I had a quick look at the surround mixers. Not enough outputs

>>>>>>on STM48S you can have 8.1, not enough?

I need to wait till my Project system comes back. I only have a Home system avalible to me at the moment. I will take another look at the STM48S again. Yor right I might have missed something here. Thanks very much for the advice. Its very much appriciated.

I will let you know how I get on.

Regards

Gary

garygiles · Post by **garygiles** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:37 am

Did you check the Surround mixers?

Hi

Thanks very much for the suggestion of checking out the surround mixers. These are certainly better solutions for my requirements but although still very quirky to use.

Thanks again for your advice and ideas.

Regards

Gary

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:53 pm

On 2005-11-20 07:45, garygiles wrote:
...I want to use the scope cards in the theatre environment where flexible routing is of the up most. I believe creamware products would have a great future in theatre if the routing could be sorted out...

I think your 'problems' were mostly due to being unfamiliar with the system yet, but your assumption is pretty close to the facts. CWA is working exactly on that kind of stuff - you're on the right track

cheers, Tom

garygiles · Post by **garygiles** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:17 am

I think your 'problems' were mostly due to being unfamiliar with the system yet, but your assumption is pretty close to the facts. CWA is working exactly on that kind of stuff - you're on the right track

cheers, Tom

I think your partly correct. But CWA do seem make things more complicated then they need to be. There is no real reason not to be able to any number of buses.

Not sure what you meant by "but your assumption is pretty close to the facts. CWA is working exactly on that kind of stuff - you're on the right track"?

What do you mean by that? Do you have a connection with CWA?

Regards

Gary

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:43 am

not at all - I just read the papers

just as you observed there's a basic functionality in SFP to deal with event and location audio, so did they.

I can hardly imagine any 'problem' at all in your installation that cannot be solved technically with SFP.
But it may end rather clumpsy and possibly not exactly fun to operate.
As they did with the broadcast stuff they'll certainly optimize the system for a specific task, but what you learn now will most likely show up again in whatever may be released in the future.
SFP is a very solid foundation for a lot of applications. It CAN be taylored to most everything, so it's worth having a closer look if something doesn't appear in the first moment.

cheers, Tom