It is a fortunate to use english as a common denominator.
Darkrezin has a point of hope to materialize the idea of
ASIO 1 on RME and ASIO 2 on CW in the same system/machine.
Certainly any idea helps.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: YAN on 2005-07-30 12:43 ]</font>
Are multiple ASIO modules supported in the same routing wind
while it's good not to give up early, there may be a point to face the inevitable:
Forget about it
it does not work this way, it's not intended this way and it doesn't even do the trick by accident or lucky circumstances
there is only one Scope ASIO driver (with half a dozen sub-divisions) but It's one single driver.
this driver is NOT multiclient capable which means (as you already guessed) that only a single application can use it.
there are cards with multiclient drivers (at least advertised as such) which are supposed to serve (say) CuBase on one instance of the driver and Logic (or whatever comes to your mind) on another.
Obviously it didn't work out with Darkrezin's RME setup - though (afaik) RME mentions this capability, but I never really digged into this, so I could be wrong as well.
of course such kind of ASIO support would be nice - but it would require a COMPLETE rewrite of the Scope Asio driver.
Imho at least a one year project if you have accordingly qualified staff.
cheers, Tom
Forget about it
it does not work this way, it's not intended this way and it doesn't even do the trick by accident or lucky circumstances
there is only one Scope ASIO driver (with half a dozen sub-divisions) but It's one single driver.
this driver is NOT multiclient capable which means (as you already guessed) that only a single application can use it.
there are cards with multiclient drivers (at least advertised as such) which are supposed to serve (say) CuBase on one instance of the driver and Logic (or whatever comes to your mind) on another.
Obviously it didn't work out with Darkrezin's RME setup - though (afaik) RME mentions this capability, but I never really digged into this, so I could be wrong as well.
of course such kind of ASIO support would be nice - but it would require a COMPLETE rewrite of the Scope Asio driver.
Imho at least a one year project if you have accordingly qualified staff.
cheers, Tom
Page 12 User’s Guide HDSP System Digiface © RME
ASIO Multi-client :
RME audio cards support ASIO multi-client operation. It is possible to use more than one ASIO software at the same time. Again the sample rate has to be identical, and each software has to use its own playback channels. The inputs can be used simultaneously.
It doesn't justify the availability of multiple ASIO modules during single operation rather points out at multiple software use.
Main concern in this case :
1st app will take over whole ASIO module
regardless of how many channels are available , all will be taken with it.
2nd app runs flat with message ASIO is not available/supported in your current project.
Any suggestion?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: YAN on 2005-07-30 22:40 ]</font>
ASIO Multi-client :
RME audio cards support ASIO multi-client operation. It is possible to use more than one ASIO software at the same time. Again the sample rate has to be identical, and each software has to use its own playback channels. The inputs can be used simultaneously.
It doesn't justify the availability of multiple ASIO modules during single operation rather points out at multiple software use.
Main concern in this case :
1st app will take over whole ASIO module
regardless of how many channels are available , all will be taken with it.
2nd app runs flat with message ASIO is not available/supported in your current project.
Any suggestion?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: YAN on 2005-07-30 22:40 ]</font>
Answer received: Part 1
You can only use 1 asio at a time.
Best regards,
***********************
Creamware USA & Canada
Tel.: 604-435-0540
Fax: 604-435-9939
Email: info@creamware.com
http://www.creamware.com
***********************
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: YAN on 2005-08-01 07:04 ]</font>
You can only use 1 asio at a time.
Best regards,
***********************
Creamware USA & Canada
Tel.: 604-435-0540
Fax: 604-435-9939
Email: info@creamware.com
http://www.creamware.com
***********************
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: YAN on 2005-08-01 07:04 ]</font>
Part 2
Here is a closing argument and respectful respond from RME.
RME's HDSP systems support Windows 98,ME,W2k,XP,MME,Asio,and Gsif,as
well as Mac OS 9 Asio and OS X coreaudio.Alsa drivers are also
available,but since they aren't written by RME,they are not officially supported.
Asio applications won't allow you to run two different Asio device drivers at a time.You can use multiple Asio devices if they share a common driver.
You can run multiple devices under MME,in apps such as Samplitude and Sequoia.
Regards
Right answer brings the light in the tunnel.
Here is a closing argument and respectful respond from RME.
RME's HDSP systems support Windows 98,ME,W2k,XP,MME,Asio,and Gsif,as
well as Mac OS 9 Asio and OS X coreaudio.Alsa drivers are also
available,but since they aren't written by RME,they are not officially supported.
Asio applications won't allow you to run two different Asio device drivers at a time.You can use multiple Asio devices if they share a common driver.
You can run multiple devices under MME,in apps such as Samplitude and Sequoia.
Regards
Right answer brings the light in the tunnel.
Just to clarify with a real-world test, I just put an RME Hammerfall 9636 in my desktop machine (I need 1.5ms latency) and connected it via ADAT to one of my Pulsars.
I was successfully able to run Logic on the RME, with another ASIO app (Bidule) running on the Pulsar ASIO. No problems whatsoever.
I haven't tried multi-client operation within the RME ASIO yet.. I'm not sure if they added that functionality to the older 9636/9652 cards (the Hammerfall DSP series definitely has it I think).
I was successfully able to run Logic on the RME, with another ASIO app (Bidule) running on the Pulsar ASIO. No problems whatsoever.
I haven't tried multi-client operation within the RME ASIO yet.. I'm not sure if they added that functionality to the older 9636/9652 cards (the Hammerfall DSP series definitely has it I think).
there is nothing to share for the apps, as no app can simulataneously use 2 (or more) different ASIO drivers.
It's that way by definition and has never been unclear.
The other case of using one multi-client driver for several different apps is even self explanatory...
which would be great - no doubt
for reasons mentioned above that's not possible, but it's frequently circumvented by connecting the cards via hardware IOs (usually Adat)
cheers, Tom
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-08-04 15:25 ]</font>
It's that way by definition and has never been unclear.
The other case of using one multi-client driver for several different apps is even self explanatory...
probably this should read that the driver for the RME card shows up (as ASIO 1) in the SFP routing window.On 2005-07-30 10:29, YAN wrote:
Running ASIO 1 on RME for 1st application
and ASIO2 on CW for 2nd app within the same system and simultaneously.
which would be great - no doubt
for reasons mentioned above that's not possible, but it's frequently circumvented by connecting the cards via hardware IOs (usually Adat)
cheers, Tom
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-08-04 15:25 ]</font>
This is what I thought the subject of the conversation was... apologies if I misunderstood. It's definitely not possible for 1 app to use 2 ASIO drivers.On 2005-08-04 15:14, astroman wrote:
The other case of using one multi-client driver for several different apps is even self explanatory...
It seems to be possible to use 2 apps simultaneously using 2 different ASIO drivers.
It also seems to be possible with RME only to use the same ASIO driver amongst several apps as long as each app does not use the same outputs. It even seems possible to use the same inputs amongst several apps, which IMHO is very cool.
yeah, which makes completely sense.On 2005-08-04 15:23, darkrezin wrote:
... It even seems possible to use the same inputs amongst several apps, which IMHO is very cool.
The data from the card's input buffers can be copied deliberately without confusing anything, while writing to the outputs would be a pretty mess when the different apps loose buffer positions...
could be creative in some sense, tho
cheers, tom
Yep, makes sense. RME stuff is damn cool.. I've been busy drumming away on BFD on the RME at 1.5ms today, routed into Scope through 2 adat i/o and I'm very happy 
Still haven't tried the multi-client RME ASIO, but I haven't had to yet
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2005-08-04 16:39 ]</font>
Still haven't tried the multi-client RME ASIO, but I haven't had to yet <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2005-08-04 16:39 ]</font>
I agree with astroman.
i have been testing for 4 weeks all the RME cards and my scope .
i practice till the begining of scope DP.
the résult:
a)Two RME in a MAC with tiger does'nt seems towork even with the internal core audio rewire
and worst 2 rme cards seems they doesn't work in the same computer !
2)For the PC i tried only on XP because other windows systems are not supported by the RME MADI card! (it was a mistake of them to mention win 98 etc for madi card and they corrected this on there french site
result :it doesn't work at all with scope.they work separatly and seems to interfer faulty in programs
only the driver "adquire sound card" of scope works with 3 second latency and no sync between each tracks.(it must be multimedia driver)
so is there a real way to connect scope to RME with ASIO ?
No it definitly dont works guys !and RME solve nothing with the multiclient (in fact multiprogram)
only way : hardware by adat optical or two computers with wormthem ALL
even ASIO 4ALL dosn't work or 2KS to rewire or Bidule to link the scope with the RME.
So IT is multiclient in two different program with asio but not on the same one to rewire input output on two cards, so furthermore with the scope it is the same.
I am realy astonished by this. ASIO is old,we are in 2006 and it is still unbelevable with cards of such price not having a MADI internal routing better thant ext ADAT or ASIO.
I add to close my answer by that :
ten years ago two scopes card could for the first time in the world dialog and work both on the same computer with the bus link.Thanks creamware.
Please creamware make a new buffered multi link virtual rewire to allow rewiring input output signal with good quality and rewire it to one card to another.(32 bits floating)
Only madi kind of signal allows good performance to route correctly or may be internal adat.
another solution would be an ASIO emulation on ADAT patching inside the scope (asio capabilities with adat routing
do you think it is possible astroman?
tired jeff
who have made to many trys on exactly this subject and who spent out money for nothing
i have been testing for 4 weeks all the RME cards and my scope .
i practice till the begining of scope DP.
the résult:
a)Two RME in a MAC with tiger does'nt seems towork even with the internal core audio rewire
and worst 2 rme cards seems they doesn't work in the same computer !
2)For the PC i tried only on XP because other windows systems are not supported by the RME MADI card! (it was a mistake of them to mention win 98 etc for madi card and they corrected this on there french site
result :it doesn't work at all with scope.they work separatly and seems to interfer faulty in programs
only the driver "adquire sound card" of scope works with 3 second latency and no sync between each tracks.(it must be multimedia driver)
so is there a real way to connect scope to RME with ASIO ?
No it definitly dont works guys !and RME solve nothing with the multiclient (in fact multiprogram)
only way : hardware by adat optical or two computers with wormthem ALL
even ASIO 4ALL dosn't work or 2KS to rewire or Bidule to link the scope with the RME.
So IT is multiclient in two different program with asio but not on the same one to rewire input output on two cards, so furthermore with the scope it is the same.
I am realy astonished by this. ASIO is old,we are in 2006 and it is still unbelevable with cards of such price not having a MADI internal routing better thant ext ADAT or ASIO.
I add to close my answer by that :
ten years ago two scopes card could for the first time in the world dialog and work both on the same computer with the bus link.Thanks creamware.
Please creamware make a new buffered multi link virtual rewire to allow rewiring input output signal with good quality and rewire it to one card to another.(32 bits floating)
Only madi kind of signal allows good performance to route correctly or may be internal adat.
another solution would be an ASIO emulation on ADAT patching inside the scope (asio capabilities with adat routing
do you think it is possible astroman?
tired jeff
who have made to many trys on exactly this subject and who spent out money for nothing
Of course you have to connect up the cards via some audio connection, whether it's analog or ADAT or SPDIF.
There is no magical protocol which passes audio between different soundcards with no latency. This is simply not how computers work.
Not sure about the Mac as I'm still a relative noob when it comes to the silvery beasts, but CoreAudio is a totally different thing to ASIO.
There is no magical protocol which passes audio between different soundcards with no latency. This is simply not how computers work.
Not sure about the Mac as I'm still a relative noob when it comes to the silvery beasts, but CoreAudio is a totally different thing to ASIO.
Linux has JACK and I believe there's both JackOSX and a newer Core audio technology (mac users can clarify). The closest equivalent for PC is win98 only, and requires the use of directx/mme drivers (not useful). Every single one should add latency though so darkrezin is correct.
Personally I use my scope cards in a 2nd PC and my RME card in my primary PC and things work better than ever. I love having the Scope cards free from 'normal' mixing duties. Combining Scope's routing plus the RME totalmix app and both analog and adat i/o from Scope and RME your routing possibilites for feedback loops are pretty high if you're not careful with your signal chain
Something like send an output from Logic (say software output 5/6) out to the Multiface's 5/6 output and at the same time send that to ADAT 5/6 which goes to one of the Scope cards. Orbitone Phaza into a Flexor filtered feedback-delay patch (wet return only) and a bit of eq on the end, returned to an adat output which patched in totalmix to Multiface 5/6 output.
End result is a nice thick effects loop that would eat a lot of cpu, and since there's not even a 'main' mixer anywhere I've got enough processing to handle quite a few effects loops and even a nice stacked synth rig or two. Not to mention I never have to complain about Creamware "not supporting Wintel Vaster (NT6.3 - 128bit) as it can sit on a nice 'ancient' WinXP box (or even Win98 if you're a speed freak).
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: valis on 2005-08-06 09:16 ]</font>
Personally I use my scope cards in a 2nd PC and my RME card in my primary PC and things work better than ever. I love having the Scope cards free from 'normal' mixing duties. Combining Scope's routing plus the RME totalmix app and both analog and adat i/o from Scope and RME your routing possibilites for feedback loops are pretty high if you're not careful with your signal chain
Something like send an output from Logic (say software output 5/6) out to the Multiface's 5/6 output and at the same time send that to ADAT 5/6 which goes to one of the Scope cards. Orbitone Phaza into a Flexor filtered feedback-delay patch (wet return only) and a bit of eq on the end, returned to an adat output which patched in totalmix to Multiface 5/6 output.
End result is a nice thick effects loop that would eat a lot of cpu, and since there's not even a 'main' mixer anywhere I've got enough processing to handle quite a few effects loops and even a nice stacked synth rig or two. Not to mention I never have to complain about Creamware "not supporting Wintel Vaster (NT6.3 - 128bit) as it can sit on a nice 'ancient' WinXP box (or even Win98 if you're a speed freak).
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: valis on 2005-08-06 09:16 ]</font>
I don't exactly appreciate it, but honour to who deserves it...On 2005-08-05 16:37, jeffb wrote:
...ten years ago two scopes card could for the first time in the world dialog and work both on the same computer with the bus link.Thanks creamware...
this was Digidesign - and in fact the first Scope system was agressively positioned against it, claiming to be able to do the same for a fraction of the costs...
In a moment of sarcasm one could even say CWA also imitated the S/TDM bus (such a common bus technology, that it didn't qualify for patents anyway) and re-incarnated Natitional Instruments LabView (an industrial measuring and process control software) paradigm as the SFP routing window
nevertheless - they mixed the proper ingredients and made it affordable - and hopefully keep it up...
and NO, I do not think one can do sophisticated low latency routing under software control in a non-realtime (PC) OS.
Afaik all 'better' cards have hardware DSP support in that context.
Linux Jack is probably closest to what's this thread is about, as it seems to have the most 'modern' design - but I only roughly browsed the specs, so I could be wrong as well.
cheers, Tom
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-08-06 10:46 ]</font>
Yep the Hammerfall DSP does routing on DSP and it functions perfectly well, but whenever I use it it reminds me of Cubase... crazy headf**k of channel strips and the routing is using drop-down menus... Scope is such a beautiful paradigm in comparison, being able to see what's routed to what in 1 window.