Summer Special at CreamWare begins
Agreed.
On the other hand, by posting your opinion/perspective in public, you have to be able to assume the fact that some people might not agree. If you post your opinion, you have to accept that others might do the same.
Also, there is some sort of distinction to be done between "opinion" and "random drivel."
If you want to discuss marketing strategies with Creamware, email them or call them.
If you don't agree with the special, just skip it and wait for one that'll fit with your needs.
If you want a card without software you already have, buy a booster card, or pickup a second hand card from this forum's Scope Purchasing or eBay or wherever.
If you want plugins for cheap, use the 50% shop glitch.
If sweetwater.com doesn't have Creamware cards, just head to http://www.musiciansfriend.com, http://www.jrrshop.com, http://www.infinitevortex.com, or any other that keep them in stock.
If the plugin you want doesn't exist, just get a VST equivalent, or get a 15-DSP board and the SDK, or get a UAD/PoCo/whatever, or get an outboard unit that'll do what you want.
If you don't agree with how the company is run, or feel ripped off, or feel the company isn't listening to you as a customer, just sell your cards and get something that from a company that is run in a way you agree with. Or, even better, start your OWN DSP-card company, and test your own marketing strategies and customer-support thesis. If you don't want put your money where you mouth is, better keep that mouth shut.
If you cards do not satisfy you, just sell them and get something that'll do what you want and make you happy.
If you are too cheap to afford plugins, just get stupid cracked VST plugins instead.
See, whatever the problem is, you can easily find a solution (altho you might need more than one braincell to figure it out (pun not intended (ok actually I admit it's intended))) without continually yammering the same drivel over and over again.
If there is an obvious solution available, and you refuse to act upon it and instead keep on complaining, you become a troll. Act and stop whining, please.
Crying like a baby and getting all soap-boxy really isn't constructive, doesn't contribute anything worthwhile to anyone, doesn't stimulate intestesting conversation, isn't going to solve anyone's problem, especially if it's stuff that's already been said and discussed a million times, especially when there's plenty of alternatives available that don't even require you to ditch your card if you absolutely must keep this or that synth or whatever.
Yes, Creamware isn't perfect. No one is. I can't imagine why you would care what the rest of the world uses as a soundcard, as long as your does what you want. If you can't do music with the current plugins, I really doubt bigger-brand-name support would get you anywhere closer.
And now I apologize in advance for what I'm going to say, but if anything, Creamware should make their cards and plugins more expensive, so that the cheap never-happy bastards stop being able to afford them, as whatever anyone does, it's never enough, it's always too expensive, and the grass is always greener on the neighbor's side.
Now, this is my biased but quite reasonable opinion. If you can't assume it, I suggest you stop reading and posting on forums, as they require a minimum of maturity. Or alternatively, find another output for your frustration. Or try the KvR forums, I'm sure you will find much more receptive ears for your complaints. Then you can go on bashing Creamware non-stop all day long while we churn out music non-stop.
Thank you for your time and have a pleasant day nonetheless.
On the other hand, by posting your opinion/perspective in public, you have to be able to assume the fact that some people might not agree. If you post your opinion, you have to accept that others might do the same.
Also, there is some sort of distinction to be done between "opinion" and "random drivel."
If you want to discuss marketing strategies with Creamware, email them or call them.
If you don't agree with the special, just skip it and wait for one that'll fit with your needs.
If you want a card without software you already have, buy a booster card, or pickup a second hand card from this forum's Scope Purchasing or eBay or wherever.
If you want plugins for cheap, use the 50% shop glitch.
If sweetwater.com doesn't have Creamware cards, just head to http://www.musiciansfriend.com, http://www.jrrshop.com, http://www.infinitevortex.com, or any other that keep them in stock.
If the plugin you want doesn't exist, just get a VST equivalent, or get a 15-DSP board and the SDK, or get a UAD/PoCo/whatever, or get an outboard unit that'll do what you want.
If you don't agree with how the company is run, or feel ripped off, or feel the company isn't listening to you as a customer, just sell your cards and get something that from a company that is run in a way you agree with. Or, even better, start your OWN DSP-card company, and test your own marketing strategies and customer-support thesis. If you don't want put your money where you mouth is, better keep that mouth shut.
If you cards do not satisfy you, just sell them and get something that'll do what you want and make you happy.
If you are too cheap to afford plugins, just get stupid cracked VST plugins instead.
See, whatever the problem is, you can easily find a solution (altho you might need more than one braincell to figure it out (pun not intended (ok actually I admit it's intended))) without continually yammering the same drivel over and over again.
If there is an obvious solution available, and you refuse to act upon it and instead keep on complaining, you become a troll. Act and stop whining, please.
Crying like a baby and getting all soap-boxy really isn't constructive, doesn't contribute anything worthwhile to anyone, doesn't stimulate intestesting conversation, isn't going to solve anyone's problem, especially if it's stuff that's already been said and discussed a million times, especially when there's plenty of alternatives available that don't even require you to ditch your card if you absolutely must keep this or that synth or whatever.
Yes, Creamware isn't perfect. No one is. I can't imagine why you would care what the rest of the world uses as a soundcard, as long as your does what you want. If you can't do music with the current plugins, I really doubt bigger-brand-name support would get you anywhere closer.
And now I apologize in advance for what I'm going to say, but if anything, Creamware should make their cards and plugins more expensive, so that the cheap never-happy bastards stop being able to afford them, as whatever anyone does, it's never enough, it's always too expensive, and the grass is always greener on the neighbor's side.
Now, this is my biased but quite reasonable opinion. If you can't assume it, I suggest you stop reading and posting on forums, as they require a minimum of maturity. Or alternatively, find another output for your frustration. Or try the KvR forums, I'm sure you will find much more receptive ears for your complaints. Then you can go on bashing Creamware non-stop all day long while we churn out music non-stop.
Thank you for your time and have a pleasant day nonetheless.
I'm a bit confused about something... why does Scope have to be the biggest selling thing since Viagra?
Is it necessary to look cool in front of your friends with the undisputed No.1 (in terms of no. of users) digital audio system?
In that case the best music-making platform is probably Reason or EnergyXT
And I'm sure Prophet 5 users around the world are scrambling down to pawn shops so they can get their hands on Native Instruments' de facto emulation. It must be good... IT WORKZ ON TEH V.S.T.!! [edit: the sad thing about the world today is that this has probably happened ]
Braincell: You said you feel like a rat going down with a ship... well you have a choice, you can sink with the rest of the rats or swim like a man
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dArKr3zIn on 2005-07-07 14:14 ]</font>
Is it necessary to look cool in front of your friends with the undisputed No.1 (in terms of no. of users) digital audio system?
In that case the best music-making platform is probably Reason or EnergyXT
And I'm sure Prophet 5 users around the world are scrambling down to pawn shops so they can get their hands on Native Instruments' de facto emulation. It must be good... IT WORKZ ON TEH V.S.T.!! [edit: the sad thing about the world today is that this has probably happened
]Braincell: You said you feel like a rat going down with a ship... well you have a choice, you can sink with the rest of the rats or swim like a man
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dArKr3zIn on 2005-07-07 14:14 ]</font>
You simply don't understand me. I like Creamware and want to help them. I disagree with you that this is not the place to complain about Creamware. I can't speak for other buyers only for myself and my position is that I need to get another card but the options will leave me with plugins I already have. Please don't tell me to sell the duplicates, that is a hassle. The trend in soundcards is towards lower cost cards. Even digidesign has an affordable option and yes of course I know that Creamware is different from all other cards. Surely you will agree with me though that Creamware is not doing as well as it should so there is a problem. The new outboard hardware might help. Let's hope so. We were told that the radio software was turning a good profit and that technology will trickle down. The jury is out on that. Again I hope it works. I am not excited about having to buy another card and sell 2 of them because ambience won't work at all for me and I suspect future plugins could be trouble as well.
You're right about the complaints.. it get's seriously tiresome. Sometimes I think it would be good to have a sticky with all the pertinent points in all forums, so we wouldn't have to beat this dead and decaying horse time and time again.
Regarding duplicate plugins - I know it can be a drag but really, there's 2 very acceptable options:
1. buy a card without plugins on ebay (there are loooooads of them... lots of rats out there
2. just buy the card with the plugins and quit worrying. The value of the plugins is so cheap with the bundle packs that it's hardly worth losing sleep over, is it?
Your point about Ambience not working is not a Scope problem, it's a PC problem. The fact is that most of the motherboards out now are badly designed with poor system bus handling and PCI bandwidth. Do yourself a favour and get an Nforce3/Ultra motherboard and quit stressing. There's always unforeseen costs in this crazy game of studio electronics. Every one of us persevering in this hobby/career knows that through cold hard experience. If you don't know by now, you'll find out eventually that you should always always account for having to buy new stuff because old stuff breaks/wasnt good enough/you need more etc.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dArKr3zIn on 2005-07-07 14:33 ]</font>
Regarding duplicate plugins - I know it can be a drag but really, there's 2 very acceptable options:
1. buy a card without plugins on ebay (there are loooooads of them... lots of rats out there
2. just buy the card with the plugins and quit worrying. The value of the plugins is so cheap with the bundle packs that it's hardly worth losing sleep over, is it?
Your point about Ambience not working is not a Scope problem, it's a PC problem. The fact is that most of the motherboards out now are badly designed with poor system bus handling and PCI bandwidth. Do yourself a favour and get an Nforce3/Ultra motherboard and quit stressing. There's always unforeseen costs in this crazy game of studio electronics. Every one of us persevering in this hobby/career knows that through cold hard experience. If you don't know by now, you'll find out eventually that you should always always account for having to buy new stuff because old stuff breaks/wasnt good enough/you need more etc.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dArKr3zIn on 2005-07-07 14:33 ]</font>
Yep, entirely agreed that Creamware aren't doing as well as they should, and I also hope the outboard boxes/broadcasting will help. I also agree that they could be more flexible as far as plugin packages/bundles are concerned, I really wish they'd include more 3rd party stuff, and/or let you choose a certain amount of plugins when you buy a new card, instead of having fixed bundles (i.e. "get 500$ worth of plugins" or something along those lines)
On the other hand (I really need to get some more hands.. somehow...) as they are still recovering from bankruptcy, I might let them get away with stuff a bit more than I would with a succesful healthy company, and tend to think that they'll correct stuff as their financial situation redress.
I don't mind too much myself, as my current setup (Scope Pro + Scope Home + A16U) works extremely well and makes me pretty happy, and I hardly ever reach maximum DSP use even on pretty loaded projects.
Like I mentionned tho, you can buy booster cards that don't come with any plugin or I/O, which might or might not be a problem depending on wether you need more I/O. The plugin transfer stuff is indeed a hassle, that I can't argue with, but you still have the possibility to go thru with it, i.e. you are not completely stuck in the cold as if the company didn't exist anymore or got abducted by aliens (them pesky aliens grr.) Of course, wether the hassle is worth it or not is your call, and I understand that it's not worth it for everyone.
The part where I agree a bit less is on the cheaper soundcards trend. Cheaper usually means cut corners, which might entail crappier PCB layout, crappier drivers/software support, lower quality components, less quality control or any number of things.
Also, it's not that Creamware cards aren't comparable to anything else, you can compare them to other DSP-driven cards. And if you do, you will find that they are still pretty fairly priced. DSP cards cost alot more to develop than simple audio soundcards that only deal with I/O and send the digital data over the bus, so obviously they have to sell them for a bit more, and as opposed to a standard soundcard, you can't really get away with a really flakey product.
Digidesign's entry Protools|HD system is 8000$ MSRP, with 4000$ acceleration cards, and the acceleration cards are actually slower (raw-processing-power wise) than a Scope Pro cards. The Creamware cards are also of comparable price to the UAD and PowerCore. If you take in systems like Pyramix/Mykerinos DSP stuff and things like the Kyma or NordMod G2 engine, the Creamware cards are still a pretty good value (in my opinion they are the best value, but this is just my opinion, and it's also highly dependant on the way people prefer to work -- technically all the stuff I mentionned is pretty good value and all of them are pretty decent tools.)
On the other hand (I really need to get some more hands.. somehow...) as they are still recovering from bankruptcy, I might let them get away with stuff a bit more than I would with a succesful healthy company, and tend to think that they'll correct stuff as their financial situation redress.
I don't mind too much myself, as my current setup (Scope Pro + Scope Home + A16U) works extremely well and makes me pretty happy, and I hardly ever reach maximum DSP use even on pretty loaded projects.
Like I mentionned tho, you can buy booster cards that don't come with any plugin or I/O, which might or might not be a problem depending on wether you need more I/O. The plugin transfer stuff is indeed a hassle, that I can't argue with, but you still have the possibility to go thru with it, i.e. you are not completely stuck in the cold as if the company didn't exist anymore or got abducted by aliens (them pesky aliens grr.) Of course, wether the hassle is worth it or not is your call, and I understand that it's not worth it for everyone.
The part where I agree a bit less is on the cheaper soundcards trend. Cheaper usually means cut corners, which might entail crappier PCB layout, crappier drivers/software support, lower quality components, less quality control or any number of things.
Also, it's not that Creamware cards aren't comparable to anything else, you can compare them to other DSP-driven cards. And if you do, you will find that they are still pretty fairly priced. DSP cards cost alot more to develop than simple audio soundcards that only deal with I/O and send the digital data over the bus, so obviously they have to sell them for a bit more, and as opposed to a standard soundcard, you can't really get away with a really flakey product.
Digidesign's entry Protools|HD system is 8000$ MSRP, with 4000$ acceleration cards, and the acceleration cards are actually slower (raw-processing-power wise) than a Scope Pro cards. The Creamware cards are also of comparable price to the UAD and PowerCore. If you take in systems like Pyramix/Mykerinos DSP stuff and things like the Kyma or NordMod G2 engine, the Creamware cards are still a pretty good value (in my opinion they are the best value, but this is just my opinion, and it's also highly dependant on the way people prefer to work -- technically all the stuff I mentionned is pretty good value and all of them are pretty decent tools.)
-
hubird
this is why I keep coming at planetz 
I deal completely with Symbiote's approach of the reality, and Drkrzn's comment, and I love the respect you show for Braincell's arguments, and also inversely at the end
But I also would like to say, comon people, Braincell and trolling?? that's a bridge too far
Sorry for speaking about you in the third person, Braincell, but I think I know how to read you, so no, troll isn't the right word.
You more often could choose for some some extra explanation and include some relativeness, instead of only expressing your frustration.
And that's what it was all about, I guess.
Summer special, yes, but also silly season, on planetz, I guess
However, nice reading it was
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2005-07-07 17:25 ]</font>
I deal completely with Symbiote's approach of the reality, and Drkrzn's comment, and I love the respect you show for Braincell's arguments, and also inversely at the end
But I also would like to say, comon people, Braincell and trolling?? that's a bridge too far
Sorry for speaking about you in the third person, Braincell, but I think I know how to read you, so no, troll isn't the right word.
You more often could choose for some some extra explanation and include some relativeness, instead of only expressing your frustration.
And that's what it was all about, I guess.
Summer special, yes, but also silly season, on planetz, I guess
However, nice reading it was
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2005-07-07 17:25 ]</font>
