What do we want from Creamware?

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:12 pm

Well, this might be going a bit radical on some
of the 'absolute' devotees in the camp, but we say:
 
Give us the source code & F off

shit...just woke up, ..... where am I ?

[ This Message was edited by: notbobmoog on 2005-07-05 16:13 ]

sharc · Post by **sharc** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:16 pm

SteveBoker · Post by **SteveBoker** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:59 pm

What I'd like to see is somewhat different than Creamware's current offerings.

I'd like to see a standalone Scope box that talks to firewire using mLAN protocol (maybe with that new TerraTec chip). The box would have lots of knobs and scribble strips so that you could tweak directly. Load and save would be managed by a StudioManager module. Integration into existing DAWs using VST, RTAS or AU.

This way, I could use existing digital mixers or DAWs to do the mixing and route audio/midi into and out of the CW Scope box from either the mixer or the DAW over firewire.

But that's just a dream. I do much the same now. I've abandoned all of Scope except for the synths. I lightpipe in and out through a Yamaha i88x and continue to do my work on OS X. I've used CW now for almost 10 years. But there's not much left that isn't done better or with more innovation on other platforms. Personally, I think it was the free updates that stunted Scope. It's still interesting, but can you imagine how great it would be if the wonderful lead they had 10 years ago was pursued full steam for that whole 10 years? Software development is like a bicycle, if you stop pedaling, you fall over.

sharc · Post by **sharc** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:51 pm

Congratulations on your first post Steve

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:59 pm

Yeh

Lets hope it's not another 3 years till your next post

best regards,
M

firubbi · Post by **firubbi** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:19 am

FFT Spectrum for sfp. so that can see real time changes that we do.
thanks

wolf · Post by **wolf** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:39 am

hi firubbi,

there will be something similar available soon. stay tuned.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:19 pm

Typical KvR thread about Creamware, complete with the "great synths" posts, followed by the "but I can't use it in my host" discovery:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1254516

firubbi · Post by **firubbi** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:02 am

thanks

On 2005-07-06 10:39, wolf wrote:
hi firubbi,

there will be something similar available soon. stay tuned.

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:41 am

On 2005-07-06 10:39, wolf wrote:
hi firubbi,

there will be something similar available soon. stay tuned.

Could you give us any more info Wolf?

Post by **hubird** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:59 pm

no, he's building up some tension

wolf · Post by **wolf** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:46 am

hehe

have a look <a href="http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 0">here</a> or <a href="http://www.wordless.com/sfp/eq2.html">here</a> .

sonicstrav · Post by **sonicstrav** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:13 am

Firewire box like the TC works stuff - much faster DSPs and more software development including fixing the remaining bugs which have been simply ignored by CW (never release any updates or bugfixes). If CW do nothing for a year with their main technology and keep pissing about with all this sideline stuff they will be f****d.

Music Manic · Post by **Music Manic** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:21 am

On 2005-07-08 03:46, wolf wrote:
hehe

have a look <a href="http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 0">here</a> or <a href="http://www.wordless.com/sfp/eq2.html">here</a> .

Very nice Wolf,time to get wallet out,but I want most of your stuff,but Euro is too High against UK sterling.Will wait.If not will just get EQ.

wolf · Post by **wolf** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:36 am

Hey Music Manic,

have a look at the bundle options, perhaps there's something for you. If not, I'm shure we can arrange something else, if you write me directly.

decimator · Post by **decimator** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:33 am

I know use happily third party devices 90 % of the time allotted to SFP sooo I would like more ( at least ) decent support from CWA : the latest SDK / DP so they quit selling their kit / felt disgusted or putting development on hold !

A paste from Digidesign site :

Interested in being a Digidesign Development Partner?

The Digidesign Developer Program offers a unique level of technical and marketing support. As a Partner, you will have access to documentation, SDK's and a dedicated staff of engineers to assist in your development efforts. Our co-marketing programs include events, print and internet marketing, a Development Partners Catalog, mailings and more. If you have a product idea that is of interest to Digidesign's customers, and the expertise and commitment to see it through, then we want to hear from you.

While the audio developer market has grown rapidly, there are still many tools and processors not offered by any existing Development Partner; so you can act now to fill these gaps and set your company on a profitable, exciting new course. Digidesign wants to hear about your plans.

Thanks for your interest. We look forward to working together.
Note: All Digidesign SDK's and developer support is offered free of charge

More alluring perspectives eh ?

Add to this a more maintained, better built and more modern looking site and I would like to see something like this ( not overnight of course ): http://www.tcelectronic.com/Default.asp?Id=2560

At least with exposure and annoucements of all third party devices Less " is CWA dying ?" threads ...

VST integration, minor bugs to iron here and there ( modular !!! ), drivers ... that could be less criticism and people giving up loudly.

Concerning new hardware, maybe blame more Analog Devices than CWA for potential delays so far !

I hope they have plans to shine for the big upgrade otherwise it will be the ultimate sport car with a plough attached.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:57 am

On 2005-07-10 07:33, decimator wrote:
...
A paste from Digidesign site :

Interested in being a Digidesign Development Partner?

The Digidesign Developer Program offers a unique level of technical and marketing support. As a Partner, you will have access to documentation, SDK's ...
...
If you have a product idea that is of interest to Digidesign's customers, and the expertise and commitment to see it through, then we want to hear from you...

...
Note: All Digidesign SDK's and developer support is offered free of charge
More alluring perspectives eh ?
...

Digidesign is a BIG company, backed up by the bucks of at least 2 even bigger corporations.
Hence they can afford some gloss and big words

They ARE representing the 'studio standard' and have (as it seems) enough professional users.Professional in the context that tools are aquired and written off the tax balance - just another expression for price doesn't exactly matter...

Except the form of invitation - and probably less staff to support you

there isn't much difference to CWA's way of handling these things.
I probably don't reveal a secret if I say that they will support you as good as it gets if you have a profitable idea and developement project - despite a differently formulated NDA.

But we all know about weak sales of top 3rd party devices.
This is not even enough for a hope to eventually do business.

And noone will expect any contribution from what's currently discussed in the SDK forums.
Of course it takes time to learn (and some will do it just for personal fun), but a company of CWA's size cannot afford to deal with a dozen or more unqualified pretenders.

Exactly THAT is the reason why they discontinued DP as a product.
Every 'developer' considered himself important (...hey, I spent a few k bucks on your sh*t...) so CWA's staff was constantly bothered with non effective questions.

Digidesign can afford to sue people - CWA would be nothing without their protection scheme.

They have to be careful - or how much would it take to move some students into developement with only the purpose of revealing hidden techie details ?

It's not that simple, but finally it's not relevant anyway
CWA isn't a brand and as such they are 2nd class and not in people's dreams - did I mention that this world is ruled by pure stupidity... ?

cheers, Tom

decimator · Post by **decimator** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:40 am

Oh, the realistic team I had in mind for CWA was one guy grudgingly allotted to answer those damn DP owners compared to the armies of white blouses / white teeth Digidesign experts enable to fix your coffe machine if necessary !

I was stunned to learn that DP owners had mainly to progress by trial and error, scarce documentation ... more thourough : less " dumb " ( to CWA technicians ) questions to answer ( or not ).

About secrecy and al. can an evil agent SDK owner open the code of the atoms with Analog Devices tools and such ? if no, it's just a big complex modular structure ... if yes they took big risks in releasing the free SDK.

What I don't understand is that they announced it will be released without an official statement that it's now available, only if you come to the batcave : " be a rumor, be a shadow ... "

From CWA I can't point out what is thoughfully planned or carelessness or ... let's see what happens and hope no one notices it ... etc,it's the CWA nebula mysteries.

I don't know what we must expect from the freeSDKers : a good product is talent, years of practice and lot of work + I don't see myself making too much work induced suggestions for a freebee ... we'll see.

What would be smarter is to kind of " hire " potential talents instead of grabbing and enhancing the better creations, some flex in the NDA would be more profitable for CWA and encourage the talented people to continue development.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:47 pm

On 2005-07-10 10:40, decimator wrote:
...About secrecy and al. can an evil agent SDK owner open the code of the atoms with Analog Devices tools and such ? if no, it's just a big complex modular structure ... if yes they took big risks in releasing the free SDK...

everything in DP and SDK is encrypted - no peek inside at machine language instructions etc, as has been explained by Nikko in the developement forum.
Comparing it with a Modular structure hits it pretty well.

Finally SDK is the interface of a very high level kind of compiler.
Of course it's tedious to learn with few documentation, but I wouldn't estimate it too difficult if you have a good idea with what you're dealing.
Even more, if you have a good idea about adding a GUI to driver level programming, which is the usual way of doing these things in industry.

However horrible SDK is 'sensed', everything it achieves is done in less than 10% of the time it takes to do it the 'classic' way.

Programming that stuff IS demanding, and SDK certainly IS NOT the tool to learn programming basics (and design strategies).
It's a special tool to get a very special job done.

That it finally fails is not an SDK problem.
You invest time and can be sure you won't be paid back, no matter how good (or even famous) you are. It's a shame.

cheers, Tom

decimator · Post by **decimator** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:28 pm

Thanks Astroman for the very clear explanations !

Which leads to me thinking that CWA should have given those would have paid for the DP all the means to ( possibly and painstakingly ) develop further by giving them the SDK.

I may be wrong but I think most of the free DP owners have quite enough to explore and test for now and could be disguted or unmotivated before going " lower level " whereas it would be more useful for the third parties with years of field practice under their belts.

For the free DP owners, again I still have this wild idea of something similar to the Reaktor community : the most talented creators make the official library for a fee ? percentage ? they have their names / codenames mentioned somewhere for the record , make few money and come back for more ... everybody wins.