Hi,
so if you look back at my article, the problems I see are not only the plugins but we will not see a new SFP 5 in the future. SFP cannot be a third party product.
No programmers @ Creamware anymore?
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King of Snake
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Mr Arkadin
- Posts: 3283
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm
I have a PII 350 passively cooled, which I'm (hopefully) about to sell with my Korg 168 mixer and a Midiman Lagoon adat card to a young guy who just needs a multitracker.
It's a nice (all-in-one) Compaq design similiar to Apple's PowerMac towers (the top of the Compaq can be tilted like the PM's side of the case).
It will certainly do what it's supposed to - remember how many TripleDat users had smaller setups for years of successful recording
Of course the PC is more or less a giveaway if he takes the mixer.
cheers, Tom
It's a nice (all-in-one) Compaq design similiar to Apple's PowerMac towers (the top of the Compaq can be tilted like the PM's side of the case).
It will certainly do what it's supposed to - remember how many TripleDat users had smaller setups for years of successful recording
Of course the PC is more or less a giveaway if he takes the mixer.
cheers, Tom
Actually my Scope box and my net box, while both p3's, are actually upgraded Asus P2b (bx chipset) boards that were initially running p2-300Mhz cpu's. My net box just has a straight P3-450 but the scope box is running a slocket adaptor'ed p3-733 into the ancient 100Mhz fsb motherboard. Works great AND SFP is running under XP on that machine without any real performance problems (pulsar1 and pulsar2).
Ok, back on topic then?
Hopefully Creamware is making some efforts towards future progress, but there seems to be more and more among newer users/musicians the perception that if things aren't progressing at a rapid rate then a product is dead in the water. (Funny how people seem to still use studio tools that haven't changed much over the years--Fairchild 970 anyone? What about all the 'emulations' of vintage gear). The reasons I hear tend to be long the lines of immediate gratification of cracked software or impatient users on one side, and vaguearies like companies must 'keep up' or be 'lost' on the other.
It seems to me that in years past the Pro audio market has generally moved slower than the computer industry (with the exception of a few genious products). Harddrives, high speed data transports (scsi, usb, firewire) and even serial data connections (midi) took longer to show up as standard in the audio market than in the computer world. As someone who was computer savvy I remember waiting with impatience myself as technology that would obviously be benificial seemed to take ages to show up in the products that were actually shipping (see examples above--still waiting on a modern Midi breakout box that isn't usb).
With the convergence that audio software has brought things seem to move to the beat of a different drummer. No longer are people complaining that it takes a few years to get modern technology into audio products. Now its common to see complaints about the lack of progress in the past year or even last few months. The pace of things today reminds me more of the consumer graphics card market and the constant software and hardware upgrade cycles that exist in the consumer end of the computer industry. I suggest the correlation isn't coincidental.
Mind you had Creamware never ported thier drivers to Win2000 (even though it was beta) and solved the issues with multi-cpu machines I'd probably not be using the cards as much as I do today. But I'm also reminded of how long things seemed to take Creamware when their focus was first on XTC mode and then Noah.
How about 64bit drivers? M-audio is all over the online audio news sites with its BETA 64bit driver support. However moving upmarket I found no info on MOTU's site about 64bit support under windows (I have a userid for their site) and haven't yet recieved email from their tech support either way, although I would presume that they have adequate drivers coming for OS-X's move to full 64bit compatibility. The same applies to Digidesign who simply responded with an automated reply to my queries about 64bit driver suppport under windows:
RME Audio is a bit more forward with their information:
Also another wrinkle from From Cakewalk's x64 FAQ (since they're moving full-steam with their 64bit development):
"Therefore only DirectX effects and DXi instruments can be recompiled for 64-bit today. Unfortunately, the VST/VSTi specification cannot currently support 64-bit plug-ins."
RME's site also has this curious bit about pci-e compatibility:
64bit support won't even be a concern for people making a living off their systems till sometime after Microsoft actually stabilizes and releases WinXP64. As always production systems will tend towards what is stable and useable versus what is bleeding edge.
(edit, fixing a broken quote)
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: valis on 2005-02-05 07:25 ]</font>
Hopefully Creamware is making some efforts towards future progress, but there seems to be more and more among newer users/musicians the perception that if things aren't progressing at a rapid rate then a product is dead in the water. (Funny how people seem to still use studio tools that haven't changed much over the years--Fairchild 970 anyone? What about all the 'emulations' of vintage gear). The reasons I hear tend to be long the lines of immediate gratification of cracked software or impatient users on one side, and vaguearies like companies must 'keep up' or be 'lost' on the other.
It seems to me that in years past the Pro audio market has generally moved slower than the computer industry (with the exception of a few genious products). Harddrives, high speed data transports (scsi, usb, firewire) and even serial data connections (midi) took longer to show up as standard in the audio market than in the computer world. As someone who was computer savvy I remember waiting with impatience myself as technology that would obviously be benificial seemed to take ages to show up in the products that were actually shipping (see examples above--still waiting on a modern Midi breakout box that isn't usb).
With the convergence that audio software has brought things seem to move to the beat of a different drummer. No longer are people complaining that it takes a few years to get modern technology into audio products. Now its common to see complaints about the lack of progress in the past year or even last few months. The pace of things today reminds me more of the consumer graphics card market and the constant software and hardware upgrade cycles that exist in the consumer end of the computer industry. I suggest the correlation isn't coincidental.
Mind you had Creamware never ported thier drivers to Win2000 (even though it was beta) and solved the issues with multi-cpu machines I'd probably not be using the cards as much as I do today. But I'm also reminded of how long things seemed to take Creamware when their focus was first on XTC mode and then Noah.
How about 64bit drivers? M-audio is all over the online audio news sites with its BETA 64bit driver support. However moving upmarket I found no info on MOTU's site about 64bit support under windows (I have a userid for their site) and haven't yet recieved email from their tech support either way, although I would presume that they have adequate drivers coming for OS-X's move to full 64bit compatibility. The same applies to Digidesign who simply responded with an automated reply to my queries about 64bit driver suppport under windows:
Checking there reveals the last public driver dates back to Sept. 2003.Q: Will there be new versions of the Digidesign ASIO Driver?
A: Yes. Check back on this same page for new versions of the Digidesign ASIO driver:
http://www.digidesign.com/download/asio
RME Audio is a bit more forward with their information:
Is it possible to use RME drivers under Windows XP 64 bit (Athlon and Opteron)? [Top]
No. Although Windows 64 allows to run 32 bit software (as Windows XP still allows to run 16 bit software), drivers must be 64 bit, or they won't work. These special drivers will be released in the future (no date yet).
Also another wrinkle from From Cakewalk's x64 FAQ (since they're moving full-steam with their 64bit development):
"Therefore only DirectX effects and DXi instruments can be recompiled for 64-bit today. Unfortunately, the VST/VSTi specification cannot currently support 64-bit plug-ins."
RME's site also has this curious bit about pci-e compatibility:
It is worth noting that 3.3v (ie, pci-x) compatibility was quickly added to most of the audio products on the market. Most modern RME cards worked fine without any problems, and MOTU and other companies offered upgraded hardware or replacements where applicable (firewire-based cards were generally an easy swap). Creamware's cards could definately use 3.3v compatibility (or a PSU-feature connector?) and in the long run OS-X support. But pci-e compatibility probably won't kill Creamware anytime soon.Are RME-cards compatible with PCI-X? Will PCI-X or PCI Express allow for even better latency specs? [Top]
RME cards are compatible with PCI-X slots. For details on G5 compatibility, see http://www.rme-audio.com/english/mac/osxcom.htm PCI-X slots will not provide lower latency. PCI Express is a new, completely different standard, used mainly on graphics cards. No other cards exist at this time. Only a few hi-end RAID adapters are expected to be available as PCI Express version later on.
64bit support won't even be a concern for people making a living off their systems till sometime after Microsoft actually stabilizes and releases WinXP64. As always production systems will tend towards what is stable and useable versus what is bleeding edge.
(edit, fixing a broken quote)
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: valis on 2005-02-05 07:25 ]</font>
All-round PC
5 years old (a few weeks ago, as I bought it at the same time as my P1). Some parts upgraded: RAM, hard drives, CD-ROM, and a net card installed. Works very well. I just reinstalled a couple of months ago. My last installation lasted 2½ years. 533@400MHz P3 (underclocked, so I could remove the CPU-fan). I feel no need for more speed on this PC.
Music PC
Close to 3 years 1000@1333MHz Celeron. Parts changed since then: Monitor, DVD-ROM, and new hard drives. I feel no need for more speed on this PC.
5 years old (a few weeks ago, as I bought it at the same time as my P1). Some parts upgraded: RAM, hard drives, CD-ROM, and a net card installed. Works very well. I just reinstalled a couple of months ago. My last installation lasted 2½ years. 533@400MHz P3 (underclocked, so I could remove the CPU-fan). I feel no need for more speed on this PC.
Music PC
Close to 3 years 1000@1333MHz Celeron. Parts changed since then: Monitor, DVD-ROM, and new hard drives. I feel no need for more speed on this PC.
hrm, i think that people see things a bit too dark here :
looks to me that its still a bit early to start shedding out pci express cards since most mobos still have the older pci slots..
and about the 64bit drivers, well like valis said there isn't even a 64bit win xp out yet (except for the beta) and cubase or vst plugin users wil have to wait till the VST/VSTi specification gets rewritten to support 64bit fully.
The thing i really dont understand is why everybody wants the latest tech and features all the time for their software or hardware, it isn't like that the stuff that we have now doesnt work or that u cant make music with it or am I wrong ?? (i'm well aware that there are bugs in it but they arent all really show stoppers imo..)
Personaly I'm more looking forward to some third party stuff that is coming out (eg adern) than to new scope cards, scope, or drivers
Sorry for my bad english.. heh
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zzero on 2005-02-05 06:42 ]</font>
looks to me that its still a bit early to start shedding out pci express cards since most mobos still have the older pci slots..
and about the 64bit drivers, well like valis said there isn't even a 64bit win xp out yet (except for the beta) and cubase or vst plugin users wil have to wait till the VST/VSTi specification gets rewritten to support 64bit fully.
The thing i really dont understand is why everybody wants the latest tech and features all the time for their software or hardware, it isn't like that the stuff that we have now doesnt work or that u cant make music with it or am I wrong ?? (i'm well aware that there are bugs in it but they arent all really show stoppers imo..)
Personaly I'm more looking forward to some third party stuff that is coming out (eg adern) than to new scope cards, scope, or drivers
Sorry for my bad english.. heh
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zzero on 2005-02-05 06:42 ]</font>
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Liquid Len
- Posts: 652
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:00 pm
- Location: Home By The Sea
Why on earth do you want an SFP 5.0? I'd rather Creamware fix the bugs in their modules (like STS, Modular) than have something 'new' purely for novelty's sake - if it isn't broke, why fix it? New products - not really a priority, but by all means, how about a new sampler with a better interface, or a vocal harmonizer, or a brass instrument physical modeller, or a CS-80 or Oberheim, or ...On 2005-02-04 10:36, elektrolurch wrote:
Hi,
so if you look back at my article, the problems I see are not only the plugins but we will not see a new SFP 5 in the future. SFP cannot be a third party product.
At this point, the platform doesn't limit me at all. Most of my problems are my own laziness and limited talent, not to be blamed on the software. I hope Creamware does the right things financially so they will be there to provide support on that gloomy day when my card finally dies.
Like Liquid Len says =P
I'm pretty happy with 4.0, and I for one am not a fan of upgrading software too often (if it's not broken, don't fix it.) In fact, I'd happily go back to 3.1c since it worked pretty much perfectly here.
SFP machine is a p3-700@933, in the uber0nifty midnite blue case too.
I'd agree that CW marketing hasn't been perfect, but I'd rather have that and functional hardware, than great marketing and shoddy products =P.
I'm pretty happy with 4.0, and I for one am not a fan of upgrading software too often (if it's not broken, don't fix it.) In fact, I'd happily go back to 3.1c since it worked pretty much perfectly here.
SFP machine is a p3-700@933, in the uber0nifty midnite blue case too.
I'd agree that CW marketing hasn't been perfect, but I'd rather have that and functional hardware, than great marketing and shoddy products =P.
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Mat@Audio_Fiction
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 4:00 pm
i own a 3 card pulsar system...
i recently bought 1 UAD and + powercore firewire....herm....herm herm...(it's obvious they have some cash to invest...quality speaks...)
CREAMWARE HAS TO PROPOSE NEW THINGS REALLY QUICKLY...they can as always rely on old customer to boost the forums but they really must do sumtin....
sometimes i'm wondering why do i keep my creamware system.....ok ok i'm very used to it and i love the unik flexibility it gives....but frankly...could they put something else that AUDI music making or or i don't know what....WTF!!!!
I think we're the most patient customers ever.... regarding what happens all around creamware....
what the hell a masterverb compared to a dreamverb....what the hell a vinco compared to a uad urei...what the hell....
without timeworks and bowen + adern....herm herm herm....
we need new things cause we like that.....i like technology...am'i faulty???
C'MON NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i recently bought 1 UAD and + powercore firewire....herm....herm herm...(it's obvious they have some cash to invest...quality speaks...)
CREAMWARE HAS TO PROPOSE NEW THINGS REALLY QUICKLY...they can as always rely on old customer to boost the forums but they really must do sumtin....
sometimes i'm wondering why do i keep my creamware system.....ok ok i'm very used to it and i love the unik flexibility it gives....but frankly...could they put something else that AUDI music making or or i don't know what....WTF!!!!
I think we're the most patient customers ever.... regarding what happens all around creamware....
what the hell a masterverb compared to a dreamverb....what the hell a vinco compared to a uad urei...what the hell....
without timeworks and bowen + adern....herm herm herm....
we need new things cause we like that.....i like technology...am'i faulty???
C'MON NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you're absolutely right about the marketing - regarding UAD an TC 
but do really smart customers believe all and everything that's presented to them ?
UAD revitalizes their old hardware, nothing wrong with that, but not exactly innovative.
Which also applies to the reappearance of TC hardware on their cards and boxes.
The most 'exiting' fact is the reduced cost due to the R&D already done and reduced 'package' size. Of course that washes some cash in.
There's a Powercore Virus and the infamous Oxford. Again rebranding - so what ?
This may not apply to you, but I'm totally convinced that not even 25% of the customers of the afforementioned boards are able to correctly name their plugs under double blind conditions.
Money and big names just sparkle too much - poor me can afford a (realworld) $20K compressor... or the parts of a mega console - that IS pleasing, but not exactly convincing
cheers, Tom
but do really smart customers believe all and everything that's presented to them ?
UAD revitalizes their old hardware, nothing wrong with that, but not exactly innovative.
Which also applies to the reappearance of TC hardware on their cards and boxes.
The most 'exiting' fact is the reduced cost due to the R&D already done and reduced 'package' size. Of course that washes some cash in.
There's a Powercore Virus and the infamous Oxford. Again rebranding - so what ?
This may not apply to you, but I'm totally convinced that not even 25% of the customers of the afforementioned boards are able to correctly name their plugs under double blind conditions.
Money and big names just sparkle too much - poor me can afford a (realworld) $20K compressor... or the parts of a mega console - that IS pleasing, but not exactly convincing
cheers, Tom
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Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 1104
- Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 4:00 pm
- Location: paname
gear lust... can't have enough... never will... "I WANT MY MTV"
those who are not satisfied with the products creamware offers -or for the matter almost any other audio company these days- will always ask for more. That will never end
i'm just glad i can get home, switch on the box and start playing...
record as many tracks as i want without losing focus on a song
produce something decent within a day
not worry about crashes while doing it
find the synth sound i'm looking for within 10 mins
select from a vast array of drum kits and get a groove going in a snap
concentrate on production rather than technique
forget the machine
I'm even glad i sometimes forget to save a song until the idea is stamped in memory!
wish i was 12 yrs old again
lucky bastards
oh LOOK! that dangerous 2 bus MUST be DA shit!
log off and go record something good
those who are not satisfied with the products creamware offers -or for the matter almost any other audio company these days- will always ask for more. That will never end
i'm just glad i can get home, switch on the box and start playing...
record as many tracks as i want without losing focus on a song
produce something decent within a day
not worry about crashes while doing it
find the synth sound i'm looking for within 10 mins
select from a vast array of drum kits and get a groove going in a snap
concentrate on production rather than technique
forget the machine
I'm even glad i sometimes forget to save a song until the idea is stamped in memory!
wish i was 12 yrs old again
lucky bastards
oh LOOK! that dangerous 2 bus MUST be DA shit!
log off and go record something good