Fiddlingwith SFP and open devices.

Hi,

I would love to have the SDK one day, but I just want so say I've had some fun recently via creating these "frankenstein"-devices via the SFP-environment and the open-feature..

Devices like an isolated dynatube cab/mic-sim etc. It's messy, but it works.
I am pretty sure I can I can create my own hybrid amplifier using this method, mixing and matching pre and poweramps as I like.
Also, chaining a lot of devices in its own circuit. The possibilities are quite inspiring.

if you stir poop, it will smell....

well, sooner or later someone would have started it anyway....
just mind your licenses

cheers, Tom

for a good reason i kept out of the discussion, just some too hot heads here

i just want to say that if you "hack" something (in switzerland, swiss law) and use the informations you got only for your own education and not for a commercial benefit and don't share it with a third party, then it's not illegal.

i don't know all the laws around the world, maybe everyone here could bring some light into this? would be interesting...

and if there's a backdoor in a product, it'll never be titled as hacking. the one who walks through this backdoor can never be guilty, why should one, it's not one's fault...

and: a hacker and a cracker is not the same!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker

en français:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker

und auf Deutsch:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker

cheers
roman

would have helped to get the pirating accusation dismantled tho...
(not sure who's heads you are aiming at, it could be some or one of 'us' ' actually? no offend annyway).

i meant i kept out of the whole DAS discussion, although the word "hacker" was used several times in a wrong environment, because a hacker is not the same as a cracker. a hacker is not coercively one who brakes the law and hacking is not generally illegal, it depends on what one does... then this general and not so overheated thread came up and i decided to say something no offend to anyone at all, just a little sidenote from my point of view...

cheers
roman

[off-topic start]

the word "hacker" was used several times in a wrong environment, because a hacker is not the same as a cracker.

Well, it depends on your nationality. In Denmark cracking is called hacking. And I guess that is the case in some other countries too. I have set up some snitz-forums wich where already modded by a guy, who called himself serverhacker. I think there where quite a few people, who misunderstood his name, when he entered the snitz board - not only danes.
[/off-topic end]


Voidar, are you bullshitting me? Maybe I just don't get the trick, because I can not do it, but I would love to be able to combine preamps and poweramps in dynatube.

why have you change the name of the topic ? it was nice "hacking with sfp and open devices"

i assume all the world i have used about pirating,cracking or hacking.
from wiki france :

Aujourd'hui encore, un hacker désigne un virtuose pouvant intervenir dans différents domaines comme la programmation, l'architecture matérielle d'un ordinateur, l'administration système, l'administration réseau, la sécurité informatique ou tout autre domaine.

about law : using a software to remove a protection like time limit or anti piracy,is illegal : sanction is (in europ) 150 000 euros,but, if proof is made that you wanted to be malicious and voluntarily harm a company, sanction is 750 000 euros and prison.
in usa : 250 000 dolars and 2.5 years of prison.

in this case : using sfp or sdk to remove a protection module is illegal.
using a forum to write topic about how to remove a protection module is illegal.

astroman has writen that he has opened our devices and removed protection module from them,he has writen in this forum how to remove this module too,how many people have read it ?
shroomz has given the tips to djmicron,but why to djmicron and not to all the dev who were concerned ? was is afraid ? malicious ? dishonest ? i don't know ...
but ,how many post have you writen to be malicious and volontarily harm digitalaudiosoft and sonolive ?

of course,you can think what you want,you can call "hacking" the name you want...you can insult me ( digitalaudiosoft ) to make false accusations,but,when a jurist read all your post,he has no problem to understand how malicious and dishonest you are.understand by "you are" only the few members concerned here and not all planetz's members .

eric

ok then, here in switzerland hacking and cracking is definitively not the same concerning the law, if you remove a copy protection then it's called cracking. if you gather informations about a system, i.e. opening a not or only bad protected device, then it's called hacking and this is not in all cases charged with a crime, at least here in switzerland...

however, eric, i thought you said that you'll keep out this kind of discussions no offense, don't get me wrong... you know, i'm a happy customer of some of your devices

cheers
roman

however, eric, i thought you said that you'll keep out this kind of discussions no offense, don't get me wrong... you know, i'm a happy customer of some of your devices

cheers
roman

it was about my conspiracy of silence topic...
about,pirating,cracking or hacking my plugins,i will never stop a discussion.
i have corsica and spanish blood...i'm latin...not swiss
you are a happy customer of some or all our devices ? just an ironic question...hope you like joking,sometimes i like...sometimes not...
i'm learning lots of good things from astroman and hubird

eric

why have you change the name of the topic ?

My guess: So people with dishonnest intensions would not find the thread with google.

about law : using a software to remove a protection like time limit or anti piracy,is illegal

Technically then, the question would be, if using 'the software itself' counts (scope plug-ins are not seperate softwares but plug-ins for a host = Scope Platform. Therefor I asume, that Scope Platform would be considdered 'the software itself'), or if in fact the law refers to external software.

Technically, I think you have a weak case for the court room, since double clicking a file in a windows explorer and using basic features in the host software (wich is what the description looked like to me) probably is, what would be expected behaviour from end users.

i have corsica and spanish blood...i'm latin...not swiss

that explaines a lot

and yes, i only use the devices i bought and i haven't even (yet) tried to open an insecure device, neighter one of yours nor somebody else's. and i probably never will because i don't care, ok maybe just for fun, who knows

last but not least, 'opening a device' and 'removing the protection' are two pair of shoes, aren't they?

cheers
Roman

sanction is (in europ) 150 000 euros,but, if proof is made that you wanted to be malicious and voluntarily harm a company, sanction is 750 000 euros and prison.
in usa : 250 000 dolars and 2.5 years of prison.

...maybe it's the only way for you to win bucks with your devices...

...or you can attack creamware themselve, cause they propose an app that allow people to crack your work...

@ Immanuel,

about court room,i'm not qualified to answer you and i have given all my confidence to a professional.

in french we call that : utilisation detournée d'un logiciel.maybe in english : diverted use of a software.

is sfp or sdk made for astroman's uses and tips ? no.
and as voidar says,it seems dynatube from creamware has this problem too.

Hi,

I would love to have the SDK one day, but I just want so say I've had some fun recently via creating these "frankenstein"-devices via the SFP-environment and the open-feature..

Devices like an isolated dynatube cab/mic-sim etc. It's messy, but it works.
I am pretty sure I can I can create my own hybrid amplifier using this method, mixing and matching pre and poweramps as I like.
Also, chaining a lot of devices in its own circuit. The possibilities are quite inspiring.

about what i call sdk bug : all our devices are really protected by the sdk protection function .so,if this function was good enough ,this problem didn't exist.
seeing how a device is made is not a problem,and ,it can also be good for sdk newbies for learning how to make a mixer,a compressor,a good eq,a good reverb...
what is "hopefully " good in this bug,is that you can't acces to hidden parameters,can't lunch a script and can't know if a script is running,can't see dsp placement,can't see where a value is stored...because you see only cables,module and folded module.
maybe that's all those reason who makes a polteq sounding differents of sl9000...or,an rmx 160 do not sound as a simple spring reverb made with only 16 ap1dr...

when the device is stollen bye removing protection module ,that's not very friendly and illegal.

and yes, i only use the devices i bought and i haven't even (yet) tried to open an insecure device, neighter one of yours nor somebody else's. and i probably never will because i don't care, ok maybe just for fun, who knows

last but not least, 'opening a device' and 'removing the protection' are two pair of shoes, aren't they?

cheers
Roman

i believe you are honest and have good friends,like me.

eric

what a nice change in language, respect Eric

I will keep any irony aside and just remind you of the sequence of facts

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:54 pm

...when you only protect the device,it can be open,you see all the algo but not all parameters...but ,you can remove a copy protection for example !

Posted: 02 Mar 2007 16:14

...well, I didn't want to participate here, but since the cat's out of bag anyway...
this hacking blurb is complete bullsh*t - there is no hacking involved at all...

as an answer to Counterpart's question

you left tha cat out of the bag
I have informed you 3 months ago that I'd consider this serious and would keep it disclosed, which I have done
obviously accepted by you, as in the same post that's quoted above there's the sentence ...i want to thanks astroman to have deleted all those hacked devices ...maybe he is alone...

you've had time to update your devices in between -it's nothing else than what happens when a network security hole is discovered
I explicitely pointed out that the only purpose of my post was to prove you wrong of calling specificmembers 'hacker' as opening a file doesn't qualify as such for sure
I never invited someone to use anything without a license, and I see it exactly as Katano.

here is an explanation of how devices are packaged, and that it has always been this way.
Intenionally or not - in the end it breaks down to a slightly careless work of the respective developer

I have never written any post against DAS as a company - I wrote a couple of times why I question your qualification, backed up by reasonable arguments - which noone has to share btw.
I don't repeat what you called me in public, but that's for sure on a different level...

so relax and keep that nice style of writing
you may also want to notice that those legal figures are 'up to' values, and most of all 'there must be evidence for a damage...'
200 plugins in 5 months (or so) isn't much, and it's already close to the 'market exhausted' line.
On the other hand your personal style of communication probably had a much more negative impact than anything ever discussed - looks like you're about to eventually change the latter, fine.

cheers, Tom

that was your post 5000 astro!!! Respect. but you repeat yourself quit alot

It's nice to see that everyone is cooling down a bit, and the discussion can go on in a more productive way...

in that respect
cheerioo
Roman

thanks, Roman

I agree on the repetition, but I think this one is somewhat better from a comprehensive and timeline oriented viewpoint, let alone there's more fact focussed talk in this thread.

cheers, Tom

they should get them a PR guy anyway.
E. is for sure already eating his own toes just because Astro came in, independently from the content of his words.
Second, your english is way too complicated for E. to understand Tom.
The message will not get through, just believe me.
It IS already complicated on it's own, a strange language plus some emotions kill the rest.
Why you think always the same mantra's come on E.'s table?
If Tom is repeating himself, then there is a trigger each time.

Wait for the next derailment, and don't say I didn't say so.
Sorry , I really think so...
Let them get a PR guy, let them get a...

Huub, it kind of looks as if you are actually trying to troll Eric.

honestly - I respect Eric's point of view as he's posted above
I have a different opinion about some conclusions - but I don't see a problem if things are exchanged this way and on this level

cheers, Tom

Wait for the next derailment, and don't say I didn't say so.

Who cares? and i am not talking about the derailment. if i spoke about the derailment i would have said something like "i dont know who posted the first reply here connecting to "the issue"" or something like "i dont know who posted a picture of a robber in the second fairligth announcement as a first reply".

can we PLEASE stick to the actual topics from now on? pretty please with sugar on top?

Huub, it kind of looks as if you are actually trying to troll Eric.

no, really not, I'm just realistic, based on my experience here on planetz and life of course.
I admit, I don't have any confidence in the public performance qualities of E. and O., they just don't understand, I can't help it!
And indeed, I'm already at a point that I don't care so much about my -occasional- words, that's the result of all conflicts with them.
I'm not a Saint, true, guess I felt disappointed about seeing E. back on the subject, thought it was over.
But trolling for sure it was not.

honestly - I respect Eric's point of view as he's posted above
I have a different opinion about some conclusions - but I don't see a problem if things are exchanged this way and on this level

cheers, Tom

i respect U2 ,tom

like scope4live,i'm sad to see this great forum with those kind of topics.
now that everybody have understood the truth,it's enough and good for me.
and i would like you read well what i'm writting next.

my only wish should be to have the possibility to delete myself,all malicious topics about digitalaudiosoft,not some posts...but all topics where digitalaudiosoft is concerned...like what's wrong...like conspiracy...even mine when i call you as stupid...all...but,i can't...
martin derknott has cleaned some of his malicious post...it was great from him.
if you tom,hubird,eliam,and all the few members who don't like me could clean them too,it could be very nice for planetz.
we ( das ) are walking on another way now,and as bill3107 has written,i'm very bad in forum communication,but when i'm in front of music artist from my true professional job or a director of big compagny like emt,my feeling is more than better.that's life
so,if we could resolve all this sad story by cleaning all those topics from the first day we came here,i will forget this story (believe me) and let olive do the comunication here ,if comunication is needed.
time is to prove that we are adult ,and i write "we are" ,that we are all for peace and for cleaning planetz.
it's possible...i remember a topic where shroomz were concerned and flamed by those who are his friends now...

do you think my wish could be realized ?

eric

I'm glad to hear you/DAS will walk on another way from now on, like you say.
Congrats with this decision, would be perfect.
I'll talk with you or Olive like with anyone else if that's true

But if you don't mind I don't think it's a good idea to erase Planetz' history.
One post, a single topic maybe, but all DAS related stuff ever posted on Planetz?

Erasing history is never a good idea, if you ask me
Saying sorry is, if there might be a reason for it.

Shit happens, and we humans have to learn from the past.
Soon the topics will be burried under new ones, after two weeks they look disappeared already.

Possible new DAS announcements and topics will soon arise, and if we are able to communicate in a normal way theese topics will overrule the old ones.

So let's say sorry for what we did wrong, and move on.
We still have to proof that we can handle thinking free, comment each others posts or plugs, critisize or praise each other, before we goodwilling start deleting a piece of our past

cheers.

[now that everybody have understood the truth,

Eric, you would do me a favour if you could explain what you mean here?
What truth are you talking about actually.

Hope you don't mind, but you will understand that your new approach is rather surprising.

There is no conclusion, no real sorry or asking for our sorry even, only a rather heavy and out of the blue request for erasing our history.
I can fully understand that you like to make a new start with DAS as a commercial enterprise, nothing wrong with that.
At the same time Planetz is an independent and non commercial internet forum, not a promotion platform.
Erasing history is not the interest of Planetz, on the contrary even.
Good promotion has to be deserved, day by day, and can't be put on the map just like that.

I'm not against you don't get me wrong, but I think it's not the right way to start the new PR line, if you can see what I mean

Yet happy with your new approach
As a matter of goodwill I'm willing to delete the picture in the last DAS announcement, I bet Eliam will rethink his post too...
Let's see what the others think first

Eric...? still there?
It could be that other reactions don't happen because people would like to see an answer from you about the meaning of this quote:

[now that everybody have understood the truth,

At least I think it's rather crucial.
Maybe you look different to it, but to me it looks or could look like we would agree about having pirated or hacked/cracked...

I'm sure you meant something else...
cheers.

Corsica, indeed, is rugged — both in terms of terrain and people...
as it's quoted in the linked article, and (after a short moment of irritation) I think I'll stick with the idea of spending a holiday there someday - what a magnificent landscape

no big deal to get over the past - it will be soon forgotten anyway
but I really like the 'french pun' in the 2 excuses, honestly I'm a big fan of that type of rethoric - the 1st one isn't that convincing, but the 2nd is great - btw
i respect Christina Aguilera

nevertheless evryone should have his preferred smoke and beverage and the planetZ is peacefully again... something's gonna happen....

cheers, Tom

as much as i was against deleting the posts in the much discussed earlier shroomz thread (i never deleted mine btw) i find it ironic that you, hubird, suddenly change your view when the "offender" (as You see it) suggests HIMSELF to let the past be the past and delete the whole issue from planet Z.

I wont delete mine this time either i guess, and as ive been objective all the way this wont hurt anyone.

But seeing the measures you went to last time to eradicate the precious history you talk about now, whats the difference? Remember, the "shroomz issue" was one thread only because people actually managed to stick to the frigging topic! One of the main reasons we are now talking about several posts/threads is because BOTH PARTS, not DAS, not You (and a lot of others, i am generalizing), but BOTH parties managed to spread this issue over so many threads its just ridiculous.

And, this is a public proposal, not a "hidden" personal message, but an initiative to move on.

Ive considered it and given my point of view. Now what made you change yours?


Best regards,

piddi

he he Piddi, you really think I overlooked that Israel thread event when I said that I wouldn't like deleting DAS threads?
I expected someone would mention it, no big deal tho, I like the debate (really).

But...read again what Eric is asking for:

my only wish should be to have the possibility to delete myself,all malicious topics about digitalaudiosoft,not some posts...but all topics where digitalaudiosoft is concerned...like what's wrong...like conspiracy...even mine when i call you as stupid...all...
...so,if we could resolve all this sad story by cleaning all those topics from the first day we came here, ...

That is something different, eh?
The wish to delete goes back to all infamous phase canceling threads of a year ago and all.
And we should do that just because Eric suddenly and totally changed his mind a few hours ago?
Even up to today he was freaking out completely...
Now we must trust Olive blindly to do it better (as he will do the PR from now on).
I give him all my trust if that is the new plan, but he also has to prove it first that this will work.
Yes, a man can grow suspicious after some time, I admit...

But my main point is that we are asked to delete all those DAS threads just to give DAS, as a commercial (professional) company, a new promo start...
As that is the reason for Eric's request of course.
(Or does anyone believe the Wholy Ghost has descended over Eric today?
At best it's a Ghost which's name is build up of three letters...).

I may be the only one, but that's a bridge too far for me, compared to the rather huge interference of deleting our 'history'.
As said before, we are not a promo platform after all, things happen like they do and like they are written down.
To delete a enormous part of our history just to serve the promo needs of a professional operating company is something I don't like at all.
But, again, that's me.

Yet we are a decent forum, so also my person likes to show a open mind and give DAS any room to post and discuss whatever they want in the future, including promoting and announcing their world of plugs.

If you are not sensible to this promo-versus-deleting arguement, well then take the first one, that deleting all DAS threads 'from the first day we came here' would mean a total denying of our history and isn't in our interest at all.
-----------------

Your point about me being sneaky...I learned from the past to do every proposal in public, therefor I made my 'daft' plan (to write a message to EMT) in public, here on planetz.
(It seems to have worked well, tho I can't proove that, and it's the result that counts, so I'm glad we but also DAS can move on here).

------------------

You are right, I see DAS as the 'offender', 100% even, after all Eric just threw the accusations of piracy into the forums in a brutal way, and spread it over several forums also, without us getting really rough!
no-oneof us started another thread about the same subject if I'm right, we were just reacting to Eric's moves.
What else could we do than follow his pathes?
I stand for that point of view, simple as that, I'm sorry, you have to live with that.

One thing I'd like to say btw.
You thought you had to correct me on these two points (see the Devices forum):
1. ..., instead of seeing this rant spread over everything DAS ever types.
2. ...it should be possible for you guys to sort this issue out internally...

Both points I was able to disprove with documentation (protest by me against the spreading, and my private email to Olive).
I really don't mind if you vent some aversion against my forum acting, but then give me also the credits if you was mainly wrong.
Does that sound unreasonable?

best regards to you

I once made the mistake to remove all I wrote from any DAS thread - made me look like an idiot later when Eric quoted 'his' version.
I had nothing to prove ... oops
as long as everything is left in place, I'm pretty sure that noone will try to construct a legal affair out of the mess - as it would make any threatening party look pretty stupid

cheers, Tom
(as a programmer you should never assume that something doesn't happen because it is highly unlikely...)

of corse I haven't (yet) given up the hope for a more civilized style of conversation

I'd like to say that I'm really glad that we -as it looks now- can move on as usual, in good spirit, as times are pregnant of big devellopments.
It would be really sad if we still had to deal with the the current conflict while at the same time experiencing the new dawn.
If only one of our enlightened members would accidently fall into talk...I put € 50,- on it...com'on, who?
Jeez, is something good really going to happen??

good vibes to all

what about my peace proposition ? nothing...
a friend...

a worm is needed to dig over and air the ground.

from another thread:

here's the truth of the matter. let's learn from our mistakes.

i love you guys!

2 simple and unique steps to protect a device.
- go to the project explorer and select the device
- right click and select "optimize for xtc" : it removes internal graphical lrepresentation of module, which allows to make lighter devices (see the difference in file size), which load much faster. Internal graphics may also call SFP for some ressources (in case sfp also has to draw the internal, useless, graphics)
- right click on the device again and choose "protect".
now it is protected as it should be.

nobody is "protected" from doing a mistake and uploading an open device by mistake. so in fact you can add an extra step which is to save in your SFP folder and make final tests with that particular copy of the device, by loading it in scope/sfp and checking that all is fine during a few days (and uploading that device, not another that you "think" is rightfully protected).
It even happens easily when the release is about several devices: it is more easy to forget one, so double checking is a clever strategy before releasing (a typical cause of that kind of mistake could just be the enthousiasm to release a device and make it available to the public asap).

There is no "trick" known to me to open a protected or closed device: you can only open devices which are already open. And this is not even a bug ! just the way things always worked in scope since the begining, as far as i know...

Regards

Mehdi

hey garyb,

have you try spacef procedure on a sdk ? this procedure is good with a dp 3.xxx
i prefere using mine on our sdk ( and we have dp too),and all our plugins are fully compatible xtc mode...are all spacef plugins 100 % xtc compatible ?


deleting all graphics object before protecting.

it seems you haven't read mine...

you can verify now,all of our plugins can't be stollen by astroman/shroomz tips !

i' have understand lots of things and learn about this bug ! and not only my mistake...creamware , wolf ,celmo, cooper have made the same mistake..are they good dev ? i can say yes ! are shroomz and mccyrano good dev ? i say NO ! i have never seen as lots of beta versions for distortion/phse plugins....

yes i have understand lots of things with this bug !

i have learn that there are worms on forum who pass their all days to try to steal official dev and write always stupid post ...who needs only free plugins,who are fan of p2p,who are so stupid that they are not able to read a topic...who don't understand what is a phase cancellation...who have never try a sdk or a dp and wants to give lessons....

what a pity...

no disrespect intended. i think you're a good developer. you know more about sdk and dp than me. there's little or no theft though, we here at z can't be all of your customers, or even close. there must be many more. i'm glad you won't have this problem any more. i thought this is why cwa stopped demos? astroman was just reporting that the issue was old news. i do believe that even the demos can be made secure, no? scope is nice, no?

we love the developers here at planetz. speaking personally, i love paying them for their devices. i think people's work should be rewarded. unfortunately my wallet has limited space in it, and a hole where the money leaks out. i do purchase from time to time, and if i liked a product, i'd purchase it even if there was no copy protection. the only limitation to my buying of something i liked would be the number of dollars i possessed. i think i'm like most people. there are some criminals, but they are not the majority. i've seen astroman chase warez guys off this forum, he's not a pirate.

i know...

astroman,shroomz,hubird,mcyrano,eliam...are saint and i'm evil.

bye,
hello to your nice friends...

eric

hello-
i think you misunderstand me. i refuse to be against you. i won't be against anyone in this forum. we don't know each other.

here is my first few sentences of the last post:
no disrespect intended. i think you're a good developer. you know more about sdk and dp than me. there's little or no theft though, we here at z can't be all of your customers, or even close. there must be many more. i'm glad you won't have this problem any more.

are we enemies? here in the ghetto, we call this drama. we avoid drama because we're all armed. unfortunately, the women know we won't shoot them, so drama exists. in my house, however, drama is kept to a minimum, i find it helps. drama rarely fixes the problem, it's just a lot of hot air and sleepless nights. besides, i love my mate and i don't want her giving me a reason to shoot her. relax.

what about my peace proposition ? nothing...
a friend...

for my part it was accepted - or did you misunderstand the linked article about Corse ? I'm a big fan of that sport, as my nick suggests (it's the name of a famous 'escalade' in Yosemite)
I wanted to add something positive that was in a way related to you

Your 'excuse' does not read as if you've written it yourself - but that doesn't make it less valuable, if the offer for 'peace' (as you call it) is honest.
Again for my part there has never been any kind of 'war' and I've written countless times that you simply overinterpret my posts.

You seem to expect that anything written is intended to 'damage' your own (or your company's) reputation.
That is simply not true - and that's why people called you paranoid.
They didn't write that to make a bad joke about you, but that you can realize it and improve your situation.

I have tried all thinkable ways to convince you that I have nothing against you and your company - it is impossible to get the message through - and that is almost pathologic.

You may not have intended it but the post (you didn't write that yourself, did you ?) containing the 'U2, tom' is a great piece of rhethoric - it is brilliantly written.

Giving the reader all he expects, but almost every statement can be turned into it's opposite if quoted out of context.
It says all and nothing at all simultaneously.
May be it's a product of pure chance, but (imho) it's either by a lawyer or an advertisement professional

Nevertheless I think it's worth a try to stick to that note (my admiration for it is no joke or irony)

from my side you're even forgiven that you fall back to your old habits only a couple of posts later - I know that learning can be a hard and time consuming process (rock climbing helps a lot in this context, btw)

cheers, Tom

ps

...worms on the forum ...who have never try a sdk or a dp and wants to give lessons....

must be me - though I can't remember to have ever tried the teacher role
Eric I have sold LabView systems 20 years ago and have programmed anything from medical imaging up to stylish accounting systems and Oracle databases.
I know enough about SDK's internals to write my own, should I ever need to...
now that was a little big mouthed - I lack the time, but not the facts...

must be me - though I can't remember to have ever tried the teacher role
Eric I have sold LabView systems 20 years ago and have programmed anything from medical imaging up to stylish accounting systems and Oracle databases.
I know enough about SDK's internals to write my own, should I ever need to...
now that was a little big mouthed - I lack the time, but not the facts...

tom,
no,you are not alone here who wants to give lessons to others
respect for your work on labview.20 years ago i was recording the singer of the group "eagles" hotel california...
so,i can understand that you wanted only to be friendly with us by opening our REALLY PROTECTED devices ( they were not open SPACEF ),by removing the protection module , by trying them ,and after delete them...it's really impossible to believe it ,but i will make an effort...ok,i admit this point.

but,what i really don't understand,if you know enough about sdk to write one,why don't you help your 2 friends,shroomz and mccyrano to make something else as only very nivce beta bugged versions...?
dsp placement,level,0fs,phase cancellation,phase rotation,are so simple for olive and me that i don't understand...excuse me tom

peace,

eric

mán...should we talk on this childish level?

I'm just reading the posts of today and dammit, nothing has changed.

Also in the announcements forum we are called worms again, only 12 hours after the socalled peace proposel (which for sure was written by someone else).
He really thinks that that thread was about him, where as it is about Creamware and Frankfurter Messe
If someone thinks we can make a 'deal' with eric, he's wrong.
before you know it's exactly the same and we are worms again.

Imagine if I would call repeatedly one of our members or John a WORM - I would have been banned.
A 3rd party develloper is calling us a WORM.
John, we are worms.
Worms.

as i said before, worms are needed to dig over and loosen the ground... it's not all negative

may the force be with you...

YO! let's cross to the announcements forum, Frank Hund did THE announcement!
Beye beye Eric, we have important things to do! In the meanwhile, take it easy, I know where to find EMT!

yes hubird !

a member who steal a devices from a develloper is a worm.

why don't you cry it to emt baby ? maybe they will listen you
come on..my favourite worm...and stop crying in every forum like " john,you see.. piddi,you see...he call us as worm..

i assume all i say without paranoia...

Eric, what we are talking about in this thread has nothing to do with the conflict and is simply not related to you, your friend or your bussiness.
Again, get you a PR guy, you make serious faults here.

i was talking about the members who have opened my devices...
you are very good to make polemics but you are not able to understand my post..maybe my french touch is too much for a small brain like yours.

friendly,

eric

YO! let's cross to the announcements forum, Frank Hund did THE announcement!
Beye beye Eric, we have important things to do! In the meanwhile, take it easy, I know where to find EMT!

YO! let's cross to the announcements forum, Frank Hund did THE announcement!
Beye beye Eric, we have important things to do! In the meanwhile, take it easy, I know where to find EMT!

any news would have been good news, this news is even better
congrats to you and to us!

why don't you learn them how to remove a protection module in dynatube ? hypochrite worm.i can't believe how you are ...what a pity ...

eric

...but,what i really don't understand,if you know enough about sdk to write one,why don't you help your 2 friends,shroomz and mccyrano to make something else as only very nivce beta bugged versions...?
dsp placement,level,0fs,phase cancellation,phase rotation,are so simple for olive and me that i don't understand...excuse me tom
peace,
eric

didn't I mention a lack the time in the post above ?
and didn't I post frequently that the buyer's motivation on this platform (not the bla,bla - the real thing with cash and so), is on such a ridiculuous level that I don't want to mess with it.
I was about to aquire a DP once... but gave up the idea when someone told me his sales figures - I was shocked, to say the least.

You will find lots of posts by me where I diss the 'community' for not buying more stuff - if you search in the past.

you will also find posts where I write if someone cannot figure out this or that in DP or SDK, then he or she simply doesn't qualify as a developer.
Call it arrogant, but I cannot remember a single case where I didn't have to figure out things myself - I've definetely spent more hours in front of the screen than in bed the last 15 years - it's a part of the job.

is it enough if I tell you that SFP is an in-circuit emulator that uploads it's stuff to the DSPs at a certain point in time ? of course that was just a plain guess

cheers, Tom

hey astro

you may could come over to lovely switzerland and give me some lessons i have the sdk for a year now and opened it only twice

cheers
roman

so,i can understand that you wanted only to be friendly with us by opening our REALLY PROTECTED devices ( they were not open SPACEF ),by removing the protection module , by trying them ,and after delete them...it's really impossible to believe it ,but i will make an effort...ok,i admit this point.

Eric, having been on the side of this discussion, I feel like suggesting an alternative way of seeing things. I may ofcoarse be wrong, but I will explain later, why this is my asumption.

1) Tom heard a rumour.
2) Tom had two choices:
2a) He could pass it on imidiately. If it was only a rumour, he might cause you a lot of unneeded stress.
2b) He could check it out first, and then delete the stuff, if it worked.

I think Tom did 2b. Here is why I don't believe that Tom keep your modified software:

1) Tom has repeatedly refered to a lot of developpers who's devices he has purchased. Noone said he was lying. Therefor it makes good sense, that Tom pays for his stuff.
2) People do not always steal just because they can.
2a) I have passed by many things in my life, wich I could take unnoticed. But I did not.
2b) A lot of people are like that. Here is an example. I once forgot the keys to my bicykle (and to my appartment) in the bike at the railway station in the forth biggest city in Denmark. Some days later I got back and found my keys still in the bicykle.
2c) About software. It is shit easy to get pirated software. I never used one single piece of that. I have however spend hours and hours installing crappy and buggy free-ware software on my PCs just to check out, if they could do the one thing I needed them to do, the one time I needed them to do it.

Just to repeat my point. Being able to steal does not make a person a thief. Having a t-shirt in your hand from the hangers outside a shop does not make you a thief. Yes, you hold it, but you have not decided, if you want to buy it, if you want to put it back, or if you want to steal it.

Oh, and ... if I wanted to steal software, I wouldn't tell the developper how to prevent me from doing it. Tom told you this. Why should he, if it was not in good intensions. Give me one good reason. Again, if he really wanted to steal your stuff, he would be pretty dumb to tell you about the security issue in your software.

One thing I'd like to say btw.
You thought you had to correct me on these two points (see the Devices forum):
1. ..., instead of seeing this rant spread over everything DAS ever types.
2. ...it should be possible for you guys to sort this issue out internally...

Both points I was able to disprove with documentation (protest by me against the spreading, and my private email to Olive).
I really don't mind if you vent some aversion against my forum acting, but then give me also the credits if you was mainly wrong.
Does that sound unreasonable?

best regards to you

ello

first of all hubird, id like to point out that these two points is not only intended for you, but to everybody that jumps on the train and start throwing comments that really doesnt help anybody.

Im a reasonable fellow, so of course i give respect where respect is deserved

just a couple of comments to the two points you addressed:
1. When it comes to user forums, i like to keep things tidy if i want to follow an announcement (like if i want to see how DAS progress with their EMT story), id expect the thread to reflect the current topic. If they announce a new device, id like to read about the device, not what happened to a device released half a year ago and accusations regarding an old and boring subject, and certainly not 3 pages of it. if i wanted to follow these accusations id rather have a place in the off topic called "THE DAS THREAD" or something. at the moment i think every subdivision of this forum EXCEPT the off topic section has these arguments going.

2. I admit i was totally wrong there it seems, which i think is a real shame.

Another point, with todays EU laws im not offended by being called a pirate. almost everybody IS ACTUALLY A PIRATE by these definitions. If a guy in these forums calls me a pirate id say "hell yeah" and smoke a fat one. This is me though, and im not everyody else. Maybe 5 years as a bouncer has made me overly tolerant and objective.

i WOULD feel offended if someone accused me of worse things though, of course i would. Like if someone said my device was a blueprint copy of theirs, and i was sure it wasnt, id go to great strengths to clean my name. But i guess i would use other channels than 45 different threads. Id make one topic where this issue could be discussed, and if people wanted to follow the issue, they'd know where to find it. Right now i cant even remember where i posted what regarding this one issue (maybe its the "cigarettes" though, in that case im sorry to blame others. )

Back to the "delete posts issue", i see your rethoric regarding history, which actually sounds a lot like mine regarding the israel thread. thats what i find kind of ironic As i hinted to in my previous post i am also against this method, but i (still) find it difficult to understand your viewpoint. its not a major issue tho, id still share a spliff with you when i go to Amster.

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!

or not.

DAS, i will just like to point out that i am in no way affilliated with this website, neither am i a moderator. i just want to point that out because i didnt understand this sentence: "and stop crying in every forum like "have you seen john,have you seen piddi...) "

Neither does it help you to continue to call people names after the "peace offering" you posted ealier in this thread. My suggestion; if you really want the help of people to delete threads you need to earn it. I know a lot of people has called you a lot of shitty things, as you also have in the opposite direction. If you want a clean start, act accordingly!

Holy shit this is the longest post i ever wrote on a forum i guess. sorry for spamming. live long and prosper!

@ immanuel

just some chronology :

as garyb says and astroman too, this way to open a device is not a real news...
ok...
as you,i can believe tom is sincere,but i have difficulties to understand why he has sent us his friendly pm only at the end of december 2006,after number of non friendly attacks on our product and on me...and,of course, just after i have mailed shroomz and mcyrano to inform them that creamware knows their names (true names ,not only planetz pseudo ) and knows about this way to open devices...

martin had remove all his devices on november and uploaded new version.why ?

as a "parano" ,i'm always verifying all things when people have strange attitude...and all their attacks were so strange...

just before this djmicron mail,martin derknott had decided to make peace,he had deleted some of all malicious topics and post...he make public apologize too... why ? only to make me happy for new year ?

now, we ,you all,know what was strange !...

what i really don't understand is the reason why,nobody here take position against this...i find this attitude very "lâche" in french...conpiracy of silence.

yesterday , i really wanted to make peace and wanted to stop a procedure...but,instead of stopping their post about me,they have written again and again...

eric
@ piddi...i'm tired to be insulted as parano..so let me write worm about members who have opened my devices...

...but i have difficulties to understand why he has sent us his friendly pm only at the end of december 2006...

this is wrong Eric, Olive didn't get the note end of December, it was new years day and I thought this 'knowledge' might be something I could trade for confidence that I had nothing against your company, so 2007 could start under better conditions regarding network communication. It was a spontaneous idea.

Under regular conditions I would have never informed you - because of your previous offences towards me - why should I care about someone's business who calls me an unemployed wanna-be who cannot afford a single plugin ?

I don't make the same drama of it as you do, but I don't like it to be called names.
You seem to have a real language problem, as I only made compliments about Corse and the text you wrote - there was no hidden irony or sarcasm.

cheers, Tom

so,to the few members who are concerned...

i will propose you/us a second chance to make peace with mark,simon and martin and friends.

if you want to stop all this story from now,pm me instead or flaming me again and again and we will find a solution to erase all,maybe with the help of
j.cooper.

we can propose one list of the malicious topics and malicious post we want to erase as the famous israel topic from shroomz...
tom,would you like to accept to be a "mediator" ? in french is a person who is able to talk with both part to find a solution.
can you do something with hubird,eliam,drakesin,mr arkadin and some few others... ?sending pm to us to explain clearly my position about peace...

i'm against all kind of censure,so,as i have written yesterday,i want to erase only all malicious post and malicious topics,not only yours and keep mine as they are,but all ! even mine !

the annoucement had to stay clean as creamware do,spacef,insdp,wolf.,flexor..all of us have the right to post an annoucement without beeing spamed.

if you want to flame me or write something else,like yesterday after this last proposition,i will never do it again.and i repeat it : i will leave this forum and let olive post.

eric

I won't delete anything by myself.

Two reasons:

1. If you want peace, I find it strange that you wanne exchange it against deleting a lot of our history.
you want peace or you don't.
Peace comes from your heart.
You are asking a price along it.
I don't pay for peace, and I don't like to violence planetz history.
I don't owe you anything, you as represent of DAS needs us.
So pay you a price, namely just behaving like a normal and friendly member.
Then you will see what a friendly community we are.

2. After your first proposel you started calling names again in hours.
Now you come with the same proposel.
When the planetz history is deleted, there's no way back for us.
It has gone forever.
You showed that you can't be trusted, why would you stay respectfull tonight, tomorrow, next week?
If I start telling us that I don't like this or that of one of your plugs, the war starts again, as you can't handle intelligent critisism.

Man how frustrated would I feel if all stuff has been deleted and you start screaming again, I'm sorry.

Sorry Eric, you chain 'peace' so-o hard at the wish to delete old threads that I can't trust it.
Peace is something you have to show, you can't buy it.
Not from me at least.
cheers

EDIT:

Eric, ask yourself exactly this:
'would I still wanne act in peace on planetz if the folks of Planetz would prefer to not delete old threads...

ok....i will wait astroman decision ,he is a litlle less stupid and less mythoman than you.

your only problem with me ,is that i'm the only one who is not affraid of you little worm !
and ,as you have never posted something interesting here,your game is to flame me or someone else !it was shroomz ,now it's me ,and tomorrow ? piddi ? tgstgs ?

astroman,can you take the good decision ?

peace or not peace ?

peace = i leave this forum

what you don't understand is that i have only one honnor,and i will never let worms spoil me like you do ,even if i have to be banied as you want to and search to !
if i say i leave this forum , you will never seen me here !

friendly,

eric

thank you Eric, I got the answers on my questions.

peace or not peace ?

peace = i leave this forum

disgusting really.

peace or not peace ?

peace = i leave this forum

disgusting really.

If you put 2+2 together more often you might consider it a typo.

hm, enlighten me if there's more Piddi
While offering 'peace' he's naming me a worm already

As I read it, it says:
guys, I offer you to leave planetz' and therefor offer you peace, but I want something back...namely deleting all DAS thread'.
So, you could even call it kinda blackmailing.
With peace it has nothing to do.
I hope you can agree on that

I think that Eric will leave the forums anyway, as DAS has taken that decision already, in cooperation with bussiness collegues of them (I don't name names).
He just tries to pull the most possible out of it, it's a solo action without Olive hanging around.
It's an act of a 'desperado', if you ask me.

cheers

, but i (still) find it difficult to understand your viewpoint. its not a major issue tho, id still share a spliff with you when i go to Amster.

I admit everything you wanted me to
Name time and place!

...

what do you need ? an answer ?

as i already told you :
fuck you and forget me man !

And this is not for other Pzians or anyone else, neither SLifers ... it's for you , man !

i've got nothing to do with you ! ok ?

cheers

olive

(bold/Italic by me).

kool,
you finally understand !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette

hi eric,

about law : using a software to remove a protection like time limit or anti piracy,is illegal : sanction is (in europ) 150 000 euros,but, if proof is made that you wanted to be malicious and voluntarily harm a company, sanction is 750 000 euros and prison.
in usa : 250 000 dolars and 2.5 years of prison.

1)
maybe I'm wrong, but all that was said was how to use the handle of a door that is not closed properly.
think of a car you see in the street. you see that the locking bolts are not down as they would have done if the owner locked it properly.
there is no law that could sue you to pay several 100k euros if you just pull the handle, take a look inside, stroke the fine leather (imitate?) seats, and then close the door again and give the owner a hint that the car is open (as far as I understand the thread this is exactly what astroman did. feel free to correct me with the right quotes that he really did something else).
if you actually take a seat, fiddle with the steering lock, and then start the engine and use it for your purposes (and go ahead with it), this is an entirely different situation!

my question here may be purely philosophical, but do you have proof that it is illegal to tell how to pull the handle of the car door that is not locked? yes, even if it is not nice to tell in the public from your point of view.

2)
removing the protection (if it is really done that easy, even in sfp) and then using software without paying is, of course against the law. but before you can sue somebody you definitely have to prove that it has been done. just taking a look at it is not enough for paying 100k euros, especially if no special debugging/reverse engineering software is used, but only the software which the device/plugin was originally written for. if this software has such a feature, it is not illegal, unless the software itself is proven to be illegal.
in germany, a software to copy protected cds and dvds is illegal, because the main purpose to use it is (as they say) to make copies of media that you can't copy otherwise because of the protection.
scope sfp is not mainly there for unprotecting devices (especially given the fact that (if its true what is said here) you can only look at them if they are not protected properly), but for using devices, be they protected or not.

I would therefore suggest that, should you have no proof that your devices actually are being used illegally, you'd better put all your energy and strength into the development of your devices (which I, like katano, like and use with an official license and paid properly for, without having even the intention to either take a look at the insides or removing a protection, since the keys provided by cw unlocked them already properly).

as long as there are olny rumours and no proof, the arm of the law is not as long as one might expect. spreading false rumours is conflicting with the law as well, btw.

think of it, consider your possibilities, and then act.
if you succeed, well. if not, don't blame the forum that you haven't been warned to consider and think about it well before.

-greetings, markus-

ps. ...a paying customer.

in legal context there's a slightly different argumentatiom, as Eric correctly quotes ...if proof is made that you wanted to be malicious and voluntarily harm a company..., which means you publish a 'method' and suggest people abuse the software.

Permanently using a demo is 'abuse' and thus preventing sales is economic 'damage', so I might well face a lawsuit for the statement ...
...if Eric himself hadn't mentioned the possibility of removing the demo protection module by opening the device a day earlier.
In my (first) answer to Counterparts I explicitely referred to this post and that there wouldn't be any need to keep it disclosed ...because the cat's out of the bag anyway...

I would never start something like this myself, let alone under an account that is easily trackable. That there has been no spreading of the news and modified devices in 3 months is evidence enough that I sticked to my words given in the new years greeting to Olive. We should really get over this now.

I don't appreciate the accumulation of certain words known in context with w*rez on a board that has a high google ranking and a great reputation.
I also kind of regret that my response draw additional attention on 'fiddling' with something - it that sense it was (unfortunately) an 'over'reaction.
Sure - there was a certain dissing of members, but eventually that's just calling someone names, which seems to happen from time to time...

cheers, Tom

well, ok.

I started considering myself somehow half informed, and right before accusing somebody (whoever) of telling a modified version of truth I'd like to have answers to the following question (I'm fine with pm, if the content is considered to be legally relevant if published):

1) is there proof that there are (or were) devices around that can be loaded within SFP in a way that some graphical representation of their innermost structure is revealed, and all without using methods that sfp doesn't provide anyway?

2) is there a difference between devices that are protected from viewing correctly and devices who are protected only to a certain level, according to what is subject in question 1) ?

3) has the hiding of the internal view to do with the protection of a device, at all? or is this something different?

4) is, thus, sfp an instrument for software pirates, or is it just a host for devices who can or can not be viewed internally, if the developer takes action for making it impossible?

it's not about sdk here, this may be all different there. it's only about sfp, and what you are able to do with it.

the anwers to all that is, imho, crucial to decide if there has anything happened violating the law at all.

forget about the car, if you like. give me facts. proven facts. no rumours.

-greetings, markus-

spying out; using without licencs; figthing each other is not very helpful for a small plattform;

so i beg everyone to only use baught devices for scope;
in support of this plattform;

may all developers what color ever stay on the plattform and bring us new good devs to improof our music;

good vibes to all honest people here!

spying out; using without licencs; figthing each other is not very helpful for a small plattform;

so i beg everyone to only use baught devices for scope;
in support of this plattform;

As far as i am aware everyone here certainly does pay for their devices. i have never been offered dodgy Scopewarez and know of no-one that uses any.

However, you said it, it's a small platform, so where's the sense in DAS's continued attacks here on the main forum for an admittedly small maket to start off with?

i for me learned from this topic that platform is written with one t;

hope my post is red for peace and NOT to offend anybody;

i man can only speak for me not for any other member;

protect your devices carefully and love your brothers and sisters (at least one lady is member here)

good vibes from vienna

love your brothers and sisters (at least one lady is member here)

That's just an urban myth i believe. This is a local place, no place for women - unless it's you tgstgs

wooohooooo!

great one, Mr. A

...
4) is, thus, sfp an instrument for software pirates, or is it just a host for devices who can or can not be viewed internally, if the developer takes action for making it impossible?
... give me facts. proven facts. no rumours.

the answer to 4 is a clear NO
what has been discussed in this context is related to a very small number of devices only - and only to some 'demo' beep modules if they happen to be on the same 'level' as some (unnecessary foor runtime) objects which usually are removed before delivery to make the device smaller.
That way the 'feature' went unoticed for years.

It does NOT give you detailed insights and it is IN NO WAY related to the encryption/copyprotection that is applied to 'shop' devices.
There is NOTHING that pirates could make use of to tamper with plugins - you cannot break the protection of the key system for individual devices - NO WAY.

cheers, Tom

Im bearded man - Austria Barbarian

but i met the myth and let me say , shes very pretty btw.

if i dont post the next few days my wife read this and i passed my ways;

-----
'This is a local place, no place for women '
no sense in translation sorry
but a lady would never post in a fighting topic thats for sure;
so please stay gentleman
----

hope the good vibes come back

respect to your wife.

we need to keep it cool for the men as well. there is always the ring and the street for fighting. this forum is for scope and related.

thanks for speaking clearly about the issue(#4), astroman. indeed, i remember when the issue first came up years ago. this is the reason CWA gave up on "time out" demos. some smart *ss decided to get something for nothing, or noticed the possiblity and set off the alarm, just like this recent case. golly gee whiz! i almost thought that some new horribleness was afoot!

[organ music]
before this goes any further let me reiterate, Scope has wonderful 3rd party developers(including the touchy DAS!). support them by buying their work when you need something or when you can. as great as Scope is, it's still a small community. we all need to eat, even the people who you're mad at or are mad at you.
[/organ music ]

'respect to your wife'

shes my sun im her shadow
but she could turn into a storm you know;

but thats another story . . .

my wife's cool too(my bassist), and she can be cranky(but not around me, that's my job in this house!), but she doesn't really care much what anyone says here on z....

[organ music]
before this goes any further let me reiterate, Scope has wonderful 3rd party developers(including the touchy DAS!). support them by buying their work when you need something or when you can. as great as Scope is, it's still a small community. we all need to eat, even the people who you're mad at or are mad at you.
[/organ music ]

Sorry, but i don't put up with bad attitude and arrogance from people that pay me to work for them, let alone people who should want my money (which i have been told by DAS themselves they don't). Sorry to drag this down again, but i enjoy customer support, not being talked down to. If people want to eat then treat me right.

yep...

with respect for Gary's (and also S4L's) attempts to cool down things, I don't see a (real) conflict not as something terrible.
The fight just has to be fought.
It's getting difficult tho if the party that wants to 'eat' (earn mony) does exactly everything that works against that.
It's hard to fight (or help) a 'suicide bomber', you can't use the concept of 'their own interest', as they don't seem to bother.

Myself, I will never buy a bread from a baker who's calling me names, and so I will never buy something from you know
--------------
I don't 'have' a wife to talk about, but I got my 'new' Elektron Machinedrum today, and the problem of static elektricity with the original one looks like to have gone, tho not for 100%, as I was able to let the leds blink by touching once.
Yet have good feelings, let's see if it will work in practice

i need a recap here sorry. wtf. no philosophicallity please.

j9k

don't dig this shit up please!