## Realtime Granulator device

Scope and XITE Development

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=3012

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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2001 6:38 am
by ronaldmeij
Iam looking for a device thats works as granulator.
So i can use the granulator on a real live input.

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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2001 12:14 pm
by algorhythm
yes - granular on pulsar! 'twould be excellent!

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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2001 1:33 pm
by ronaldmeij
i spoke with John bowen about this device
This is his reply :
Hi,
Just to let you know I got your message...interesting application, to be sure, and probably something that will need deep cooperation from Creamware for a 3rd party to do. I'll mention it to them, and see what can be done...
Regards,
John B

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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2001 12:02 am
by Philippe
sory for my ignorance but what does it do ????

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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2001 1:02 am
by Michu
http://hem.passagen.se/rasmuse/Granny.htm

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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2001 1:31 am
by ronaldmeij
U are my freind hahahaha
thankz

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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2001 3:28 am
by Michu

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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2001 10:13 pm
by papahabla
What kind of grain do you want? Guitar amp, mic preamp, speaker, compressor, Tape satch.

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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:09 am
by Philippe
I want them ALL !!!!!!!

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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2001 4:49 am
by algorhythm

> On 2001-10-08 23:13, papahabla wrote:
> What kind of grain do you want? Guitar amp, mic preamp, speaker, compressor, Tape satch.

i think you mean distortion
we are talking granular synthesis. read Michu's link if you do not know what the meaning is

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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2001 11:37 pm
by papahabla
Sounds cool. I'd love to hear it.

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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:18 am
by Michu
if someone haven't tried it yet, it is not exactly granular synthesis but buffer override from DestroyFX is very cool. other fx too.

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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2001 5:19 am
by algorhythm
<i>if someone haven't tried it yet, it is not exactly granular synthesis but buffer override from DestroyFX is very cool. other fx too.<i>
yes! there stuff is *very* cool! definitely some of the most unique plug ins, and FREE!

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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2001 8:11 am
by Shifty
Cheers for the tip Michu - just had a go on that buffer override thing. Creates sounds not dissimilar to granular synthesis but it actually seems a lot easier to come up with something useable (usually with something like Audiomulch I create a big .wav file and spend a while going through it to pick good bits).

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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2001 9:18 pm
by Neutron
so far im not very convinced with "granulab"
it sounds like a delay unit with screwed up settings.
is there any better sound examples of something created with granular synthesis?

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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2001 6:02 pm
by Michu
hi defex,
granulab is simple free progie.
others that come to mind are crusher-x and audiomulch. best granular synthesis i've heard yet comes with reaktor 3 ( did someone mention it recently? )
michu

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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2001 9:41 pm
by Neutron
actually i listened to some examples of kymas granular sounds. it is very impressive. (reminds me more of the thing in fruityloops that can read a bitmap and make it into a sound, rather than granulab)
it would probably not be all that hard to make a "blip" atom which did not use much DSP. unfortunately that is not something i can do.
i will look more into how it works an kludge something together with what we have, just to see if i can make anything sonically usefull.

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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:24 am
by Neutron
i am actually getting somewhere with this! i'll have a test device up in a couple of weeks.

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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:48 pm
by Nikko
You'll never see a real granulator on the Creamware platform. Maybe an imitation, right...
Let me explain. In this synthesis, grains must be about 20ms. Like in particle system in 3d, more you have musical grains, better is the result.
Then you need to delay each grain in the time. You can transpose your sound that way (it is a way to do pitch shifting). If you change the volumes and the delays correctly, you create evolving textures.
Then you have to have sort of lfo for each grain to make them move like sin or better, solar system simulation to simulate orbital movements.
The granulation need grain and grains = memory. With only 6k per DSP you will fill a DSP with about 14 grains. Because you need at least 30 grains, you have more than 2 DSP only for the grains memory.
Then you need LFO for each grain. LFO is a sin, and they do 256bytes. 30x256 = 7860, 1 more DSP.
A granulator would cost at least 3 DSP only in buffer memory.
Of course you can do a granulator with 10 grains, like you can do a 3d game on a calculator...
I'm quite sure there are ways to simulate granualation but it should be done in pure DSP code.
Who has the DSP Kit here???

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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 9:21 pm
by Stubbe
I admit, I am totally out of my depth here, but couldn't the system RAM be used, just as the STS-x000 uses the computer's RAM via the PCI-bus ?
That would be OK with me
Just my cent
Cheers
Stubbe

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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:05 am
by Nikko
Well using PCI for 20ms delay lines, that's a possibility or mix PCI and memory), but anyway, more than 30 PC delay line are doing PCI overflow on most computers.
Nikko

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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2002 7:45 pm
by Neutron

> On 2002-01-21 07:24, defex wrote:
> i am actually getting somewhere with this! i'll have a test device up in a couple of weeks.

no i will not! unfortunately what Nicolas has pointed out is quite a barrier as well as some atoms being asynchronous that would be better synchronous for this!