## delaying in samples

Scope and XITE Development

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=24563

#### delaying in samples

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:01 am
by Jah Servant
how can I arrange to delay a signal by samples like in the mixers? I am trying to build a parallel compression tool, but I need to delay the original signal to line up with the one going through the compressor.
thanks

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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:57 am
by Warp69
Use the "200 Delay DSP" module.
Delete the surfaceinterface and panel from the module, so you have a clean module - then use the standard "range text" for the actual delay value in samples.

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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:59 am
by next to nothing
you got flexor? maybe a Ssmple Delay will do the trick...

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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:00 am
by next to nothing
ah.

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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:25 pm
by Jah Servant
thanks warp, I was using that delay, I just couldn't get it to set right, I'll try what you say, sounds right.
I don't have flexor, but one day in the future

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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:53 am
by Jah Servant
ok, here's the problem.
What warp said does work, just like the channel delay, but it's not working for what I want to do.
I even tried it in scope, if I run the same signal into 2 channels and invert one the signal disappears, so I know there is perfect alignment, this works. However if I insert vinco into one of the paths I can not get the signal to cancel at all, from what I understand the compressor adds an amount of delay and once you compensate for that the signal should cancel again, but it's not working, has anybody had luck with this at all?

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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:14 am
by Shroomz~>
Stardust is correct. Vinco is too coloured to be able to fully phase cancel it with a parallel delayed copy of the signal. That said however, most inserted effects in Scope have a common delay of 14 samples as I discovered when I built . LA COMP, which is designed to measure inserted effect latency as well as ext' send/rtn latency. If you spend some time testing effects with that device, you'll quickly notice that send & return paths to external (standalone) Scope effects commonly deliver less than half the latency of the same effects when inserted in insert slots. Commonly 5 samples if I remember correctly, but I'm not in the studio, so can't double check that. Try it for yourself & you'll soon see the emerging patterns.

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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:32 am
by Jah Servant
Stardust, I had thought of that but I wasn't sure if it was the case, thanks. Thanks Shroomz, I'll check this out

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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:07 am
by Jah Servant
here's something kind of strange, I just did a little test, I ran a sine wave through scope into 2 tracks in cubase, one through vinco first, the other direct. I didn't use vinco as an insert though, I ran straight from my adat in to asio out. In cubase when I select samples for the ruler and zoom in, there is no difference between the 2 starting points, they line up perfectly. Why/how would this be? There should be a slight delay of the track running through vinco, no?

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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:16 am
by Jah Servant
Shroomz, tell me if I am using your device properly. I'm not using the insert at all. I connected the send out into vinco, and vinco out to return. Then ran a test signal and clicked auto, it ran some numbers, then locked at 1, this means there is just a one sample delay with vinco? In your release post you said that the signal needed to be able to pass through dry without bypass, I'm not sure if this is the case with vinco or not, does all this sound right to you?

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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:25 am
by wolf

> Jah Servant wrote:There should be a slight delay of the track running through vinco, no?

No, not necessarily. As Shroomz said (a little bit hidden) the plugins behave different, if used as insert or directly in the project window. It can also change, when loading the project or optimizing dsp allocation or loading it on a different system or ..

> Vinco is too coloured to be able to fully phase cancel it with a parallel delayed copy of the signal.

If you set ratio to 1:1 the signal content shouldn't differ to the original.

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Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:45 am
by Shroomz~>
Jah Servant, I'm not in the studio, so I can't run the tests & verify your results. Perhaps someone else here could do so to help you?
Wolf, as mentioned above, I'm not in the studio, so can't check that. I think that's the setting I used when testing Vinco though...

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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:47 pm
by voidar
Whenever I para-comp a drum-bus via Vinco, I find it much easier to phase-invert the dry signal before delaying it. When you hear the pumping/imploding effect, the tracks are aligned.
Beware that RMS-mode needs a longer delay than peak-mode does.