## new knobs.

Scope and XITE Development

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=4794

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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2002 9:42 pm
by Neutron
there are a couple more free rendered knobs over on http://www.neutron7.com
there is a link near the top "free knobs for scope developers"

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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2002 11:40 pm
by spacef
yeah, cool, at last some nice looking, clean, well exposed new controls.
Thanks , the new ones will certainly be used.

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Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2002 4:20 pm
by Spirit
I would like to build some knobs too. How should the file be made ? let's say a 32-position knob. Should all the files be separate or combined in a bitmap sequence ? What about transparency ? I assume you want a transparent background. And do they have to be bmp files or is png or even gif ok ?
I notice the posted knobs above are actually tga files on black.....

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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 11:15 am
by Neutron
scope requires 32 bit TGA or (some kind of) BMP files (which i never tried)
the files have to be numbered like knob0000,knob0001.....knob0031 (for a 32 position one.)the name part before the number is not important.
scope will load nnn0000 and every following file with the same name until it finds one with no following number. the animation is then stored with the device (and can be referenced within a device for other knobs)
I like to use 3dsMAX to crete controls because it is "scope friendly" i like it for these reasons:
when you create an object in 3dsMAX and render it with nothing behind it. the alpha channel(transparancy) is created automatically.
when you specify a non animated file type and render an animation sequence it will create the proper numbered files
video post can be used to make alpha blended glows.
something else i cant think of right now
If you open those knobs in photoshop and look at the alpha channel you will see how the transparency works.

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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:43 pm
by spacef
Other instructions.
you cannot rezise animations in scope (i had the question once).
for faders : do only the button itself, a single bmp 24 bit (or tga 32 for alpha channel). it is imported after by the developper on the "trail" script. You can also do the whole animation if it's special.
For 2 state buttons (on/off for ex) do the on & off states , or all states if you have specific text.
deal only with bitmaps 24 bit windows, or TGA 32 bit if you need an alpha.
if you don't need an alpha bmp is preffered (my opinion of course, but it's better for compatibility)
Alpha allows to make round corners/transparancy.

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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 4:06 pm
by Spirit
Thanks for the information. I'm going to try to make some buttons for general use. I'm using lllustrator 8 and Fireworks 4 so hopefully they should be able to cope

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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 11:06 pm
by spacef
Another tip :
Please do not do animation of 32 images for a knob : do at least 33 or an ODD number. Why ? because it allows a perfect middle position, contrary to what you can see on Pulsar knobs.
I alos talked about size : this means your animation/knob will be of the same size as you do it. there's no way to make it smaller or bigger afterwards.
I would take a device ipmage as a background to make my own knob fits the general pulsra graphics.
PAy attention to shadow : "drop shadow" can be made in DP (shadow iof the knob on the device surface). but the light effect on your knob must be in the animation. We can do Drop Shadow in Scope, but their's no lightning editor (and that's better for our dsp).
This is taken from DP Manual :
Bitmaps/Animations
This dialog serves to provide content for bitmaps and
animations , supports 24-bit BMP and 32-bit TGA
files. For rectangular bitmaps with no transparency
component you can use the 24-bit BMP format. For objects
with rounded or other transparent or semi-transparent
regions (such as a potentiometer knob) you will need the
alpha-channel. This is supported by only a few graphics
formats, and in SCOPE it is supported only for the TGA
format at present.
Animations also use BMP or TGA images. The 3d images
used to animate the potentiometers were rendered as a
sequence of TGA files (pot01.tga, pot02.tga, pot3.tga ...).
The number of frames you use is arbitrary and does not
influence the resolution of the values the control can
produce. The more frames you use the smoother the
animation will be - and the greater the storage requirements.
The potentiometers use 32 images, which is quite sufficient
to produce a smooth sequence.
******************
As i said, please do ODD numbered anim for knobs, like 33 images and not 32. Maniacs like me like it when middle value correspond to a perfect middle position graphic.

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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 11:12 pm
by spacef
yes Spirit, new buttons would be very nice !

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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2002 4:32 am
by Spirit
Thanks for all the detailed info. Knob city or bust.

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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2002 8:26 am
by Neutron

> On 2002-03-27 23:06, spacef wrote:
> Another tip :
> Please do not do animation of 32 images for a knob : do at least 33 or an ODD number. Why ? because it allows a perfect middle position, contrary to what you can see on Pulsar knobs.

Good numbers of frames for knobs:
0 to 10 dial .
41 frames.
modular type dial (with marks at -135, -90, -45, 0, 45, 90, and 135 degree positions)
37 frames.
Main Light source is "microsoft approved" from the top and right with some fill lighting as you like.
this is just so it will match other pre existing controls someone may decide to use.

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Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2002 9:27 am
by spacef
i wanted to download the "chrome" control to update the free "Pro Q beta 02" but they are not there anymore... may be link broken? or simply not available ?
(nb: i don't intend using them in a commercial dev)

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Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2002 9:18 pm
by Spirit
I've emailed them to you

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Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2002 1:15 am
by spacef
Thanks Spirit !
actually i was looking for that one
but it's not there on defex site...
AT a moment I was interested in giving a free membership/ProQ for he who would do knobs i could use on the final commercial version of ProQ, but i don't know if people would be interested....
I could also do nothing and use 3rd party knobs if any, and make members if i use the knobs in a commercial device (ie, out of any "contest" or whatever)
In any case i would update the free beta/devices

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Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2002 1:20 am
by Spirit
I'm trying
Trying to automate the process between a bitmap sequence and creating the alpha channels - don't to do an alpha channel for all 33 bitmaps individually...

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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2002 11:00 am
by Neutron
sorry i did not see this because my planetZ folders are the wrong colors
anyways it is fixed

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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2002 11:02 am
by Neutron

> On 2002-04-01 01:20, Spirit wrote:
> I'm trying
> Trying to automate the process between a bitmap sequence and creating the alpha channels - don't to do an alpha channel for all 33 bitmaps individually...

did you have any luck yet? I would be interested in seeing a non MAX based knob creation automation

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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2002 4:30 pm
by Spirit
I created a knob as a bmp in Fireworks then took it to Flash to do the rotation. I then tried to "export as bitmap sequence". The plan was to then take the multiple bitmaps, drop them into Photoshop and then drop the alpha channel on each bmp and save as tga. But I wasn't satisfied - too messy and inaccurate.
Now I'm trying to take the bmp, save as a GIF, create a rotation animation in Fireworks (which is far more easily controlled than in Flash), then export as a bitmap sequence, go to Photoshop for tga etc.
It's all a bit messy. I think I'd like it your way !
Just one thing I'm a little hazey about: when I have the Photoshop file with the Alpha channel, should I make the alpha visible when saving as a tga ?
So I'm perservering - I just want to automate some of it.

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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2002 7:51 pm
by Neutron
it does not matter if you can see the "pink" of alpha when you save or not. thats just in photoshop.

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Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2002 12:34 am
by spacef
thanks Defex, i updated the ProQ1 with 2 new "mods" of different colors, using your chrome2 knob. See in the Device page of pz.
Other knobs may give other mods ...

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Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:45 am
by Spirit
I've had good success at last - Fireworks can semi-automate the process, but no TGA output
For now I'll just go with 24-bit bmp files on black.
Just one more question: Fireworks exports the bitmap sequence with file numbering name _f01, name_f02 .... name_f33
Will this naming convention be OK or does it need to be four numbers ie name_0001 ?
thanks for all the help
Too bad Scope won't take gif files, then I could really have fun...

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Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:52 am
by at0m
... I bet 95% of the users uses 16bit displays. I've been wondering why CW wants 32bit files.

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Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2002 5:19 pm
by Neutron
it is the standard for alpha channel bitmaps, 8 bits each for red, gree, blue, and transparency (alpha)

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Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2002 5:20 pm
by Neutron

> On 2002-04-06 07:45, Spirit wrote:
> I've had good success at last - Fireworks can semi-automate the process, but no TGA output
> For now I'll just go with 24-bit bmp files on black.
> Just one more question: Fireworks exports the bitmap sequence with file numbering name _f01, name_f02 .... name_f33
> Will this naming convention be OK or does it need to be four numbers ie name_0001 ?
> thanks for all the help
> Too bad Scope won't take gif files, then I could really have fun...

o dont know, it probably would. send some and ill try it.

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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 2:43 pm
by spacef
Can't you do in photoshop a mask for the alpha and save or copy/paste it to the different images of your knob ? should only take a few hours to do
I agree for the gif format, it would be great.

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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 3:17 pm
by subhuman
Yes you can save keystrokes in Photoshop and replay them or apply them to a group of files automatically... it's pretty awesome and could probably be used for this purpose pretty easily.

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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 5:24 pm
by Spirit
Yes SpaceF, that's all I can think of....
Take the 33 Fireworks bmp files and drop them into Photoshop. Then create one "master" alpha channel and drag and drop that onto each of the remaining 32 files and save as tga. A bit messy, but I don't think you can automate a layer drag and drop onto a different file (Sub ?).
There's just some things a human's still got to do
Hope to have my first knob very soon.

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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 8:11 pm
by Neutron
it wont work if the knob has any kind of point on it or on a glowy meter. you would have to move/rotate your alpha. mega pain!

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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 11:04 pm
by spacef
here's somesoftware that say they convert many file format : may be there's a gif--> tga32bit conversion ,
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/1,10 ... n&ca=10001
I can't test myself. If the link doesn't work, it's on download.com search "image convert"

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Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 3:19 am
by Spirit
Good tip. I downloaded the demo of this one:
http://www.batchconverter.com/
It was as fast as hell, but can't recognise the transparent canvas of a GIF as an alpha tga.
In the meantime I've finished my first tga 33-position knob ! Hope you like it SpaceF.

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Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2002 4:41 am
by spacef
yes it's cool, check in your e-mails....