## Looper Machine

Device/Module Wishlist

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=12864

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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:23 am
by marcuspocus
I need a devices that behave like this :
http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/RC-20/
The Boss RC20 Loop Station
Somebody up to it?
I'm sure it can be a HIT!
I can bet on it

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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:39 am
by borg
ableton live???

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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:31 pm
by borg
sorry for the rather blunt reply
i'd for sure like something like that in scope, but my guess is, that it would take some pci resources and ram. not CW's forte i reckon. i could be wrong. let's hope i am.
but i think ableton live is just the right tool for this kind of stuff...

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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:25 pm
by marcuspocus
I know ableton live, but i didn't seen to have the same facility doing live loop this way, i mean, while a play guitar, or sax, or bass clarinet with my two hands...
Maybe a foot controller? Well, i guess just by the inner working of ableton that i'll have to map a bunch of pedals to acheive this...
And, well, sorrry, but the thing doesn't need more memory than a sample player, could be a single device, that you can map to 2 foot controller to acheive this pretty easily.
I hate software, the more i play live, the more i hate software. To date, Nuendo is cool to work in the studio.
Fruity is coOl to mock around on a laptop (and alot more also, obviously).
Ableton is cool for a live set with a mouse and a bunch of knob.
But i play LIVE instruments, both my hand are busy, busy alot. I need small devices that perform brillantly on a small task, and they also have to be ergonomic.
Thanks alot anyway for remembering me to ableton, i almost bougth it once, finaly, wasn't exactly what i needed at that time. Well, time change, maybe i could have a second look at it

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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:52 pm
by borg
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7511
_________________
andy
<FONT SIZE="-2"> the lunatics are in the hall </FONT>

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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:05 pm
by marcuspocus
Well, after reading the thread on your link, the guy came to the same conclusion as me, and didn't found a solution (not in this thread anyway)
You can control about anything on live using midi controler, but, the specific thing i need doesn't work "hand free". Here's what the guys (and me) is searching (quote from the thread):
"i have been thinking about getting the Behringer, but have any of you used it for live sampling and building live/LIVE sets? i guess you still have to select what track you want to be recording to.. so it can't be all hands free...."
So maybe i can live with not selecting a track, and using a single track, for a single instrument (obviously), but dont you think that ableton live is a bit overkill for a looping effect on a single instruments? Not to talk about the cost of it, and the trouble of having "another" software running in a live gigs, beside sfp?
Nah, i don't think that for me.
Well, again, i should try it again and fool around to see and test the thing i need exactly.
Seriously, you don't want a device doing ONLY that? Perfectly? On DSP? Really real time?
Ok, maybe i'm the only one in the world finaly.... Damn...

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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:32 pm
by borg
mmm, okay, i understand your situation. and no, you're not alone if some smart developer would get it done, sure, that would be awesome!
but 'defend' abelton and the fcb1010 a bit: do you honestly think such a hardware pedal or a scope solution will give you a one hour live set worth of hands free operation? and besides, the fcb can be programmed so that every switch can send out a note message. basically you should be able to assign 127 note numbers in the fcb, and these to recording slots in ableton. if you set up your tracks and their recording inputs in a clever way, you can get veeeeeery far...
a few months ago, i did this special thing with some friends: me on laptop and Live, and a bunch of friends on mic, synths, flutes,... all going straight into the computer, looping away like mad, throwing in vst fx, tweaking the loops,... all without the slightest preparations. i wonder what would be possible if i gave this concept of doing live gigs a closer look.
have you heard of something called 'echoplex'.? i remember having heard this device being good for live looping. do a search on the ableton forum on hardware loop devices, and you'll probably find some interesting user reports.

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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:35 am
by marcuspocus
Yep, heard about echoplex.
i'm seriously gonna have a closer look at ableton, maybe i'll buy it.
First, the fcb1010, for sure, for 150€ this device look very very coOl for what i need.
Thanks again borg, you're very helpfull
Héhé, still, i wish for a looping device on sfp

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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:08 am
by at0m
We've had the Infinilooper Delay (if I remember the name well) that did this, it's only 2.04 compatible or so. But this one is very well possible, the memory can be built out of delay lines. It takes no new atoms like a recorder device, except for setting loop length automatically maybe. But maybe there's a work-around for that, either in using or in developing the device...
Fingers crossed

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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:48 am
by spacef
that's an echoplex (original)
http://www.tonefrenzy.com/2/maestro_echoplex.htm
In the boss above : 5 minutes loops ? mm, that's a lot. + tempo changer is like time strtching ?
There are several "sample and hold" for sfp/scope (infinite looper, celmo's something (i don't remember sorry) and spacef echo (but you need a controller button to play with the input gain as sample/on/off).
But the boss thing is far more sophisticated : loop quantize ????

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Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:47 am
by marcuspocus
Yep my friend...
I would LOVE TO PLAY a live gig with this
On SFP obviously

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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:05 am
by voidar
I have also been looking for such a device and I guess ableton could get you really far, though it is complex.
You could use any delay in SFP to sample and hold, but it would require using your mouse perhaps. Or I guess you could controll a channel vol (which would controll the input to the delay) with a exp. pedal, and perhaps the delay lenght with another exp. pedal.
This would be a very destructive approach. Changing the delay time would also create some glitches/noise.
Another thing. All SFP delays seem to be restricted to about 5 seconds of repeat time and I doubt you could solve this by chaining delays. Anyway, this is what you have the Modular for , building strange devices.
I create some guitar ambient loops this way, and it was great fun. Very random.
You could experiment with other SFP delays too like the Maryjane and ganja dub delay. Do a search.
You could also look into the Boomerang which is supposed to be a very simple, powerfull and expensive looping device. As an alternative to the Boss that is.
Do you know this site? http://www.loopersdelight.com/loop.html
Check it out.

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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:14 pm
by marcuspocus
Thanks alot voidar, yes, i tried with modular... i can't keep a loop for too loog, i always have to play with the feedback...
Too high it completely freaks out in resonance, too low, it stop, and your right about changing delay times, now, it completely destroy the sounds and crackles like hell.
I also know loopers delight, they have a review of different looping devices , soft or hard, and their conclusion :
the best is Electrix Repeater : discontinued and very expensive (800€ + for second hands devices)
The 2nd best would be Boss RC20, almost on par with some more obscure compagny stuffs.
Ableton? Following some suggestions, i'm actually trying to figure out how i could use it with a foot controller to trigger recording but a face a BUNCH of differents troubles:
A can trigger the recording of one loop to a channel, but after i stop recording, the channel isn't monitored anymore, so i have to create 2 channels one for recording the other to monitor thru it all the times.
Anyway, i'm still trying, and if nobody confirm that they are working, or at least trying to make a similar device, i'll buy the boss rc20 for 389€ I'd rather give this money to a sfp developer...
BTW, why, instead of making 3millons different synths, cwa doesn't make effects like this one? Well, i mean, not necessarily THIS one, but hey, there is alot more effects than a simulation of an old compressor that can be made! No?
Bah....C'mon creamware! Do something original! Do something nobody is trying to copy! A looper device to kill all others looping devices !!!!

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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:14 pm
by marcuspocus
I was thinking about the looping device for sfp, and all trouble related to recording a file (no atoms available) etc...
What if, using a sample playing device, that can READ a file, this file is loaded in memory? Right?
So, maybe it's possible to load a default wav in memory like a sample player, and write captured audio to memory instead of to a file?
I mean, replacing data that is already in memory by newly aquired audio data, moving start and end point to loop into that? This approch should be doable?
For a talented developper?

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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:20 pm
by Immanuel
Have you tried the little green delay from Celmo? It may be freaky, but it also may do what you sometimes want. I like it.

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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:53 pm
by marcuspocus
Man, i tell you, i'm an expert at delays, sort of , i tried them all....
A dub delay (or delay that can do feedback) is not what i'm searching.
I know Celmo's Ganja's delay, i also have his Vintage delay, which have a HOLD button from a request i made, and i also use SpaceF Echo delay alot.
It's not the same thing...
Read the manuals from the Boss rc20 loop station, or Electrix Repeater.
You'll understand exactly what i need.
BTW, Celmo, or spaceF, you know what would be REALLY cool on both your delays? A tap tempo button...
Now, with a tap tempo, i can get 'close' to what i need

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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:19 pm
by spacef
well, i can't do it now, it would take monthes, i'm buzy reading the sts manual, more instresting things to do.

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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:57 pm
by marcuspocus
Sans rancune j'espère Mehdi?
Tu sais, j'suis un gars prompt pas mal, faut pas s'en faire

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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:02 pm
by spacef
bof.... j'ai dis une connerie et demain est un autre jour... ah planetz au reveil, c'est pas toujours un cadeau ça te dis d'aller voir "les secrets de diego" en cer-con cette semaine ? y a une annonce sur mao zicmu. tu reserves et t'amene une bouteille, : concept sympa non ?
++
nb english speakers: we're just talking about going to a a gig this week ...

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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:11 pm
by Immanuel
Oh yes, I mixed it up for a few seconds. My first and almost only rack gear was a Washburn digital delay (I bought it on sale in 1991) had a hold button. Hold is great

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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:27 am
by marcuspocus
spacef: coOl, je t'appelle

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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:22 pm
by marcuspocus
Hey atomic, a saw on wavelength site while i was checking out ISON & tracker (which sound fantastic!), that wavelength has a SFP3.1 compatible v2 infiniti looper.
Maybe that's a good candidate! So, people who tought recording was impossible, he's able to record 10sec. (thru delay lines maybe?)
Have to talk with Mister wavelenght ...
Hey hey, maybe that the thing!

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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:43 pm
by wayne
not de-vice you're thinking of?

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Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:50 pm
by rodos1979
should be!

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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:33 am
by marcuspocus
Euh, sorry, a feel stupid
Yeah, obviously, De-Vice !
héhé

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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:38 am
by wavelength
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... 3&f=16
<<< actually, I did make this a long time ago... the loop length is maxed-out at just over five seconds, not ten, however.
- Stephen
http://www.track0.com/wavelength/

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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:52 am
by marcuspocus
What about a little overhaul with an added tap tempo button? Even 5sec, is "most of the time" enough for a riff...
héhé
Tap tempo would change delay length on the fly.
Maybe I'm being stubborn a bit... I WANT MY LOOPING DEVICE!!!

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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:50 am
by voidar
So do I.

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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:54 am
by voidar
http://www.deviceplug-ins.com/infini.htm

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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:04 pm
by marcuspocus
yep, infiniti looper by ->De-Vice<- stated 7 msgs up...

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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:19 pm
by voidar

> On 2004-06-08 13:04, marcuspocus wrote:
> yep, infiniti looper by ->De-Vice<- stated 7 msgs up...

Yeah, but I did not find a link.
Is it not usable?

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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:28 pm
by at0m
The GUI of that device only works up to Pulsar OS 2.04. It displays the panel and its values window offset etc. under SFP 3.1c or SP4.

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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:00 pm
by marcuspocus
Seem to work perfectly here anyway... Maybe it's the new post in the device forum?
infiniti2 !

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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:35 pm
by voidar
It is said to work for pulsar 3.x.
Marcus, are you running the infinilooper on SFP 4, at it seems to function flawlessly?

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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:35 pm
by borg
atomic was talkin' about the neutron xenon device, marcus...

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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:39 pm
by marcuspocus
What?
Neutron xenon? What's that?
There is confusion,
There is actually 5 delay that can act as looping devices, ('cause they are able feedback a delay line to infiniti), that i know of, there is:
-De-Vice infiniti looper v2
-Wavelenght infiniti2
-SpaceF Echo2m
-Celmo Vintage Delay Line (with a sample&hold which is totaly coOl)
-Celmo Ganja Delay with a very nice and precise feedback and resonance control
Apart from that, and except for occasional mod patchs, i don't of no other looping stuff.
Neutron xenon?

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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:42 am
by wolf
There's also my MatrixDelay.
It even gives you different possibilities to "dial in" the new sound/loop, because of the very flexible routing of the device (and in this case the ducker).
Try it ..
best
Wolfgang

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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:13 am
by marcuspocus
Thanks alot wolf, you're talking about this i suppose :
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... 8&f=16

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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:29 am
by wolf
yes

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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:04 pm
by borg

> On 2004-06-08 18:39, marcuspocus wrote:
> What?
> Neutron xenon? What's that?
> There is confusion,

my mistake i mixed up with the m/s encoder/decoder thread...

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Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:18 am
by onomat
Hi all just been reading this post and thought I'd add that YES, My Infini-Looper has 10 seconds of recording/time, can do endless looping, is fully midi controllable and works fine in Scope home/project/professional v4.0 etc.
http://www.deviceplug-ins.com/infini.htm
cheers
sayton
De-Vice'
http://www.deviceplug-ins.com

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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:48 am
by marcuspocus
Thanks alot onomat!
I got your device now, and it does exactly that. The loop doesn't degrade the sound, and there is an intelligent "bypass+punch-in/punch-out" on it like the LoopStation1 mod3 patch i uploaded.
coOl
Fit perfectly my needs!
Now, if delay's atoms from DP wheren't crackling when changing delay time, it would only miss a tap tempo function.
That's looping heaven
For those who asked, yes, the infinilooper v2 from device work perfectly in sfp4

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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:13 pm
by borg
cool you got the device you desperately needed, marcus
here's a revox vst, but probably you came across this one already...
you just can't have enough of them

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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:12 pm
by marcuspocus
Thanks alot borg
I didn't saw this one before
A cool thing is that it can sync to tempo, without completely destroy the sound
THAT'S cooL...
Oh, and you're right, can't get enough of them

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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:11 am
by marcuspocus
A come back after playing with the vst borg mentioned...
It work pretty well, has the features i need, but, BUT, Scope sound so much better !
Arrggh!
Can't have it all it seems
I think, i'll live with onomat's infinilooper2 for now. It does almost everything i need, except synching on tempo. True that onomat told me he'll look into maybe a modified version of infinilooper2 to include this feature.
Hope it true
I love SFP sound...

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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:42 am
by pseudojazzer
i want sfp looping as well - it must be possible!! i have been playing with a few hardware guitar loopers and i cannot recommend the boss rc20 as much as line6's delay modeller - its got tap tempo on all the delays but you can't change the tempo after you have played the loop like you can on the boss, but go and try one the sound quality difference is huge - the line6 wins hands down on sound but the boss does have 5mins over the line6' 15 seconds (expandable to 30 if you record at hlf speed!!)
you say you like scope sound - well in my opinion you won't get it with the boss, but its a great practice tool - sorry i can't help with any more info on the software side of things - but i hope this is vaguely interesting/helpful to your cause.
peace

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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:56 pm
by symbiote
Wavelength had a small device called infiniti that could do some nice infinite looping stuff (basically a delay with 100% feedback.)

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Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:50 am
by marcuspocus
read the whole thread symbiote

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Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 1:31 am
by symbiote
Oops. Sorry about that ^_^. So can't longer-than-5-seconds delay lines be done on SFP with some memory access?
What about STS5000 with some MIDI? I guess a bit complicated with the funny (in the not-funny sense) interface and whatnot and a bit overkill for the job, but you could get pretty close. I don't know how well it does pitchshifting/stuff if at all (besides the robot stuff) and how well it could-be tap-tempoed.
With Logic, you can convert CC messages to MIDI notes (or trigger midi notes with CC messages and alien landings and what have you,) so you could have the whole select-and-start-stop loops (and recording, and conquering the world) thing all in the comfort of a foot pedal.

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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:01 am
by borg
new toys:
http://www.plasq.com/ OSX, but windows planned
http://essej.net/sooperlooper/index.html OSX, standalone gibson echoplex emulation.
http://www.plugins.timeshard.com/ angstrolooper, windows only

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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:12 am
by marcuspocus
Thanks alot borg!!!!
This 'AngstroLooper' look pretty much to what i need

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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:36 am
by samplaire
There are times I desire OSX - they are like that, I mean when I find an interesting effect processor I can't find for OS9. But, hey, I can still do the stuff I want in OSX and then do main work in OS9

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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:43 pm
by wayne
I got an akai headrush pedal on ebay a little while ago - simple & inexpensive - and great for constructing loops live.
Approx. 12 seconds in overdub mode, 24 in single loop.
I plug a mic for brass & vox, bass, guitar & Noah into a little desk, then into the pedal.
Not high-end by any means, but good fun