## Midi CC# preset

Scope and XITE Development

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=35976

#### Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:45 am
by soren_jepsen
Is it possible to make presets "remember" CC# assignments?
I can right-click assign a CC# to a fader on my device, but I can't figure out how to recall it with a preset. Anyone?
Cheers
Søren

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:40 am
by faxinadu
In the preset browser you have a bank for midi cc assigns. do your assignments and save a preset in that bank.

Attachments
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#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:54 am
by petal
cc assignments are also saved when you save a project.
Be aware though, that unfortuantely the cc preset/save-system is bugged on several of the bigger synths: Minimax, Profit, Odessey, Vectron, Juno and others. It works when you do the cc assignments initially, but once you reload that project/synth midi preset, "something" does not work as it should any longer, as in, the synth does not sound right and the functionallity is bugged beyond any work arounds.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:11 am
by soren_jepsen
Thankyou

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:09 pm
by at0m

> petal wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 5:54 am [..]It works when you do the cc assignments initially, but once you reload that project/synth midi preset, "something" does not work as it should any longer, as in, the synth does not sound right and the functionallity is bugged beyond any work arounds.

iirc, this can be solved by wiggling the controls or knobs. this is caused by the assigned CC# that includes a value, not just the CC number. indeed a bug, bad programming in the SDK. solution? to find and wiggle the knobs that cause this, or load a (couple?) preset(s) where the knobs have different values and update the actual internal value to something sensible.
oh this must have been 10y ago for me =)

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:13 pm
by petal
Hi Atom, I did some thorough testing of this a few years back, and also tried that work around, alas it didn't work. Some parameters you are not able to "wiggle" back to normal functionality. On Minimax I seem to remember the bug is to be found in the waveshape-selector among others.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:41 pm
by dawman
Just use SALs Project Preset List.
It remembers changes in your Routing/Filtering too.
Consider it a list of 128 projects with flawless recall.
It only works on MIDI Channel 1.
I consider it one of the most brilliant devices in Scopes Arsenal.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 12:55 pm
by petal
Never got to try it. SAL unfortunately deleted that device from PlanetZ.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:52 am
by David
Jv posted a link to it somewhere recently
Try a search for " Prj preset list"
Think it was in s|c easter egg post

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:40 am
by David
Found it ->
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... st#p338449

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 2:43 pm
by petal
Thx - I got it now

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:05 am
by petal
I have now testet it, and unfortunately the "Prj preset list" is not a work around for the cc# preset bug as it does not save cc-assignements in it's presets.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:21 am
by t_tangent
Do you mean NOT a workaround?

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:14 am
by petal
Yes, I have noe edited it, so it says "not" and not now

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:19 pm
by Marco
I heard with the SDK you could solve the Problem by assigning fixed CC#. I have the SDK here but I never worked with it, and it Looks very wirred to me.
Does anyone know how to do this?

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:03 pm
by petal
You can only do that on "unprotected" devices. All major plugins are protected, so no luck there. We can only hope that Holger manages to fix this bug in the next update.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:52 pm
by garyb
settings are saved with the project, however. at least with the mixers, they are....

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:03 pm
by petal
Yes, but cc's that are bugged will also be saved with the project, so that unfortunately does not solve the problem either. In fact, it is part of the problem.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:05 pm
by garyb
i don't know.
i use ccs all the time with nary a problem. i guess you are trying things that i don't do.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:14 pm
by petal
Never did check the mixer's for the bug, but most of, if not all of Creamwares/SC's synths are bugged.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:18 pm
by petal
Also, the bug doesn't show it self until you reload a cc preset or reload a project with bugged cc's assigned in them.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:12 pm
by garyb
so, i guess you need to use the notepad and list the ccs and then reassign them. definitely a pain, but not really hard. it's an argument for recording things. i know this is not helpful, but well...there it is. its a loss of some 5 minutes of life...
i've always disliked the midi preset list. it's disappointing.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:34 pm
by petal
You don't need preset lists if saving the project is fine for you. But saving a project with assigned cc's (that are bugged) will introduce the bug upon reloading the project as well.
So, if you like me develop on your scope project by adding and removing devices and cc-automation as you compose and produce, your "work around" isn't really gonna work, cause if the cc is assigned and you resave the project, the project will be bugged upon reloading.
This bug is old. You can find it in UKnow, Minimax, Prodyssey, Profit 5, ProTone, Vectron etc. (I only checked the synths and pretty much stopped using Scope this way) and it has been known by the community since back then. That Scope doesn't really have bugfree "total recall" negates the whole idea that Scope revolves around (at least for my needs): a digital studio environment with total recall.
I know that Holger is aware of the bug and that he thought he had fixed it with Scope 7. I really hope that he manages to fix it the next time around, and let that next time be soon.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:49 am
by garyb
yes, as i said, i understand that it doesn't work the way you would wish it to work. as i said, it's disappointing. also, as i said, it is a good argument for composing and arranging, then recording...

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:17 am
by petal
Nah - The fact is, that it does not work the way it is intended to work. It is a bug Gary. You calling it "not working the way I want it to work", does not make it into "there is no bug"-case scenario.
Reloading saved projects with assigned cc's in Scope, should be something you can trust to work exactly the way it worked when you saved the project. For over 15 years, this has not been the case.
At least not for all the creamware developed flagship synths that I have tested. Don't know if this is also a problem for the mixers and plugins, as I never tested those.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:46 am
by garyb
i have a lot of trouble with Windows, all versions. many of these problems are quite troublesome for me. computers have been like this for 100% of the time that i have used them, since my first Tandy 1000 with an 80186 processor. but as i said(again!), i totally understand your complaint.
bug? sure. probably not implemented correctly is more the case, but tomato/tomahto.
"not working the way you want it to work" is the reality, bug or no. what are you accomplishing? do you wanna fight? i can't afford to go to Denmark, so you'll have to come here. i'm old though. expect me to cheat.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:39 pm
by petal
I'm not looking for a fight - I am puzzled though, why you are trying to downplay this issue in the first place?
Just to make sure that we are talking about the same issue - Try this simple test:
1. Load minimax v7
2. Run a simple midi-loop of notes into Minimax, so you hear it playing the default sound
3. now assign a cc to either Range or Waveform on OSC1 and notice the difference in sound and after that test the buggy functionality of the knobs.
This is just one example of the kind of buggy behavior and change in sound I'm talking about, and it is present in all major Creamware developed Synths on different parameters. On some synths more than others. It might be an issue in the mixers and plugins as well, I havn't tested those.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:05 pm
by garyb
it's not an issue for mixers and fx.
when have i downplayed anything? i keep acknowledging you and your complaint.
i do think that you can do without assigning ccs to Range and/or waveform, but i also think it should work. so there.
are you humorless? are you sure you don't want to fight? i've got a spare room for guests once i'm done smacking you around with cheap shots. actually, you can visit and use the room without fisticuffs...i don't doubt you could win a fair fight, so that won't happen, jfyi...

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:24 pm
by petal
I am humorless - and dry...

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:41 pm
by garyb
well, then libations and lubrication are in order.
no need to be chapped.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:48 pm
by petal
Cheers mate

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:04 pm
by Bud Weiser

> petal wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:34 pm
> This bug is old. You can find it in UKnow, Minimax, Prodyssey, Profit 5, ProTone, Vectron etc.

This is true.
I recognized already years ago when I got my Kurzweil PC3 and hoped to control several SCOPE synths simultaneously in realtime,- using the Kurz´s MIDI-zones, individual haptics like sliders incl. ribbon controller, all the pedals connected and not only pitch-/modwheel and sustain pedal.
Especially for B2003 and because the Kurz PC3 allows, I assigned a lot of non-standard MIDI CCs to control all the C/V settings, percussion settings, overdrive etc. and drawbars.
It worked as long as the project was running, but next day, all was gone.
I recreated all the s##t and resaved,- but same result.
Big time investment, big frustration.
The synths respond to the standard controllers the developer set in stone w/ SDK ... other assignments go south always.
It´s VERY important for keyboardplayers using complex MIDI setups and want to replace hardware instruments w/ SCOPE devices.
But we´re the minority it seems.

> petal wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:34 pm I know that Holger is aware of the bug and that he thought he had fixed it with Scope 7. I really hope that he manages to fix it the next time around, and let that next time be soon.

I also hope it will be fixed soon,- at least before I retire or die.
Bud

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 pm
by dawman
Im still not sure what it is that isnt working?
Is it the synths not remembering the CC# assignments?
I havent used Scope synths since Solaris came out and eben then Prowave and SpaceF MultiSynth, Solaris, etc. All worked fine.
I use the mixers and FX so Ive never seen this, but please explain to me what is a bug and how you save a bugged project?
I didnt like the way Mixer Preset recalls worked so I tried Project Preset List, which is a snapshot recall of everything per project.
Im thinking using this would work, it actually recalls different MIDI CC# assignments per preset.
Ibe told people about this decice for years, I find its most useful for resetting mixer AUX, Channels, etc. fantastic.
No need for my controller to reset the mixers levels, it always defaults so when my controller comes on only the faders and knobs I need on that particular song are controlled. All others are ser to zero or mute.
PRJ Preset List is awesome, only works on channel 1 but no big deal there.

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:33 pm
by Bud Weiser

> dawman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 pm Im still not sure what it is that isnt working?
> Is it the synths not remembering the CC# assignments?

^^^^^
THIS !

> dawman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 pm I havent used Scope synths since Solaris came out and eben then Prowave and SpaceF MultiSynth, Solaris, etc. All worked fine.

Well, not for me,- and I dunno why.
It was on my old(er) system, Win XP SP3 and w/ SCOPE 5.1 though ...
I´ll try again w/ the new system ...
The machine w/ AsRock Z97 runs fine,- actually I´m typing on it and use it w/ internal HD-audio/ASIO4All, NI and Reason just to go thru these native s##t for some learning purposes,- but I don´t have SCOPE v7 x64 installed up to now.
It´s because the old machine is somewhere in a box between all the cases fllled w/ gear and since I had to move,- and in that machine, there´s the SCOPE PCIe card and it´s actually hard for me to pull it out w/ my mobility issues and w/o help.
Never live out in the sticks ...
My best friend, helper and service tech,- he dropped into a hidden well-pit on another estate and broke several ribs.
He´s livin´ about 20 miles away and cannot drive,- so I´m screwed for the upcoming weeks.
I wondered if it would be easier buying another PCIe card from S|C.

> dawman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 pm I use the mixers and FX so Ive never seen this, but please explain to me what is a bug and how you save a bugged project?

Projects aren´t bugged.
With the synths, you have some controllers set in stone by SDK, but when you assign other controllers in addition, these are forgotten next day when you load the same project again,- regardless of saving in the MIDI presets folders.
When I got the Kurzweil PC361, offering 16 zones in performance mode, I made a SCOPE setup inside the Kurzweil.
Several synths incl. Minimax, Prodyssey, YouKnow7, Profit5 and B2003.
The latter needed the most assignments,- for the PC3 sliders acting as drawbars, perc. on/off and modes, same for CV, overdrive (and leslie),- even I used an ext. sim at that time in addition.
It all worked perfect as long as SCOPE was up and I saved MIDI presets and the project itself by nature.
Next day, all was gone except the controllers the synths respond to by default.

> dawman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 pm I didnt like the way Mixer Preset recalls worked so I tried Project Preset List, which is a snapshot recall of everything per project.
> Im thinking using this would work, it actually recalls different MIDI CC# assignments per preset.

I have this preset list in my focus,- stored a lot you posted here.
Will try all relatively soon, I hope (see above) ...

> dawman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 pm Ibe told people about this decice for years, I find its most useful for resetting mixer AUX, Channels, etc. fantastic.
> No need for my controller to reset the mixers levels, it always defaults so when my controller comes on only the faders and knobs I need on that particular song are controlled. All others are ser to zero or mute.
> PRJ Preset List is awesome, only works on channel 1 but no big deal there.

Aehmm,- what does "works only on channel 1" mean ?
MIDI channel #1 ?
Well, if that´s correct, it works for a mixer but not for several synths/samplers,- no ?
Anyway,- I´ll use SCOPE like you do, for mixer and FX, possibly one or the other synth too (when these work w/ MIDI CC and program changes),- and wait for SCOPE v7.1 and see what will be improved.
I don´t sell my XITE-1 which I think is a unique piece of hardware gear, just only waiting for the improvements, possibly step-by-step.
I´m pretty sure no other company will come up w/ this kind of box housing so many SHARC DSPs and getting the sync done.
Once the software is able using all it´s muscles, usage of internal RAM included, it will be hard to beat.
But w/ that damn VST3 progress, I really hope SCOPE synths won´t lose MIDI preset banks and program changes once imrpoved VSTIM will be available in a separate app.
Bud

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:01 pm
by dawman
I see what youre talking about.
Ive had to right click on a knob or slider on dNa Rack FX, older version, and it wouldnt come on until I disabled and reassigned the same CC again.
It was Pitch/chorus rate because on all synth vibrato/wheel stuff I want wide fat shit, not a single sine wave, so I modulate everything including rate and depth

#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:39 am
by Spielraum
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#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:11 am
by Spielraum
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#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:17 am
by Spielraum
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#### Re: Midi CC# preset

Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:24 am
by borg
Spielraum,
I have an idea what you're talking about, but don't understand any of it! However, keep up the good work! It is appreciated!