## Pot's movements and range

Scope and XITE Development

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=24496

#### Pot's movements and range

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:55 am
by Warp69
Hi,
Im playing with the graphic system in SDK right now and it has been years since last time I was playing around - but I seem to have some problems with the movement and parameter range of the pots.
The only range I can get is the standard one :
Range : [ 7 -> 8 -> 9 -> ........... 4 -> 5 ]
But I would appreciate if someone could help me out with the following ranges :
Range : [ 12 -> 1 -> 2 -> ........... 8 -> 9 ]
Range : [ 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> ........... 9 -> 10 ]
Thank you.
Cheers

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:48 am
by MCCY
Are you talking about values or graphics?

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:59 am
by Warp69
Movement infact.
I have looked at almost every device for the Scope platform and every single one use the standard movement/range for pots.
I will ofcourse use the standard movement/range for the width pot, but what about the in/out pots?
Cheers

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:08 am
by MCCY
You need other graphics... IMHO
Shroomz should be expert on that.

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:18 am
by Warp69
Eh?
Why?

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:27 am
by MCCY
Because the animation for the knobs is never 360 degrees as far as I know & has a certain start & end point.

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:31 am
by alfonso
Not an expert, but watching at bmp knob stripes they are always a row of all the positions from the first to the last. Changing this range should provide what you need. I'm just guessing....

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:33 am
by Warp69
Ehm - I have no idea what you're talking about?!?!?!?
The clocks images at the top of this topic are only for demonstration purpose - the graphics for the device is shown just above and doesn't contains any 360 degrees pots.
Am I missing something here?

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:36 am
by Warp69

> alfonso wrote:Not an expert, but watching at bmp knob stripes they are always a row of all the positions from the first to the last. Changing this range should provide what you need. I'm just guessing....

Nope - The standard moverment will always start at 7 o'clock and end at 5 o'clock - no matter what graphics (or value range). And will jump from max to min/min to max through 6 o'clock. Atleast on my system.

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:37 am
by MCCY

> Not an expert, but watching at bmp knob stripes they are always a row of all the positions from the first to the last. Changing this range should provide what you need. I'm just guessing....

Yes, but how do you get exact 6 o'clock if there is no image for that. As far as I remember the standard animations don't have 6 o'clock.
If you make new graphics & have lets say all positions of 360 degrees (What I meant was 12 hours ) as an extra frame, the animation simply may start with the frame of your choice and end with the frame of your choice.
I'm quite sure that it's a graphical = pot-animation problem, not anything to adjust in sdk. Sorry for being cryptic before-I had a phonecall in parallell
Martin

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:42 am
by MCCY
All you have to do is put the frames (if you have the right frames) in the right order (give them a number)...

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:50 am
by Warp69
Nope - that's not the solution - my problem is not the frames.
My problem is the circular movement that starts at 7 o'clock and ends at 5 o'clock. I want the circular movement to start at 12 o'clock and end at 9 o'clock for my in/out pots.

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:08 am
by MCCY
But where do you get the missing 6 o'clock frame? It's simply not there, so you need one.
As soon as you have a 6 o'clock frame (let's say the frames arround 6 o'clock) you can arrange your frames in the order you need the animation to be played.
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... ight=julia
This one is movin in another way...

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:21 am
by next to nothing
ok im just guessing here.
you would need to render a knob whith as many steps you want, starting with a keyframe of start position and end position. number of pictures should correspond to the control steps you intend to use, i.e. a standard knob would be 128 images with a knob rotation from 7 o'clock to 5 o'clock. thats the only way your graphics will interact precicely.
For your 12 to 9 animation you would need a keyframe at 12 and one at 9, which represents 270 degrees. frames you render in between is dependant on how many controlsteps you are going to use. stupid example; if tha AMS lfo dial was stepped, you woud render 10 images. if you were to use the full CC range, 128 images should be rendered.
as for interaction with code i dont know if you are going to filter CC values or use the full range, so if you were to filter out 1/3 of the steps, you would need to filter out 1/3 og the frames in the knob animation as well (i mean render just 96 steps).
This probably doesnt help but i was just thinking out loud.

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:24 am
by MCCY
You're 100% right piddi & you are better in explaining than me

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:45 am
by Warp69
Well - I have no idea how I should explain my problem.
You can download the pots right here:
www.relab.dk/Width%20Pot.mdl
www.relab.dk/Input%20Pot.mdl
As you can see - the width pot does not have any problem because it already use the same movement as the standard one.
Where the input pot has problem because it should use another movement range - 12 -> 9.
How do you fix that?
Cheers

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:17 am
by MCCY
Hm. After inverting the range (control ranger) it was fine too. Working beutifully as (I guessed) they should. I seem to have understood nothing

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:33 am
by Warp69
Yes - they both work - but the input pot behaves strangely since it should have used another movement range - ie not the "7 o'clock to 5 o'clock" movement as it do now.
Im not talking about value ranges but about the circular movement behavior - the black marker on the input pot should follow the mouse pointer just like the width pot do.

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:39 am
by MCCY
Warp, this works perfectly here. Really the movement is exactly from 12-9. I just had to invert it, because it was from 9-12 before. There must be some stupid error, something overseen. Exchange the project & I bet it'll work. Or I am totally stupid. It works exactly after your clock-demonstration 12-9 - wonderful. Nice knobs b.t.w.
To make it clear: The node (black marker) starts at 12 (on top of the pot) and moves around till it comes to 9 at the left side...

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:53 am
by Warp69

> MCCY wrote:To make it clear: The node (black marker) starts at 12 (on top of the pot) and moves around till it comes to 9 at the left side...

Yes - but where do you place your mouse pointer to get the black marker at 3 o'clock? On my system its around 11 o'clock to get the marker at 3 o'clock. I would have appreciated that the marker followed the mouse pointer, so if I wanted the marker at 3 o'clock, I had to move the mouse pointer to 3 o'clock. Just like the width pot.

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:00 pm
by MCCY
Shame on me. I got it. O.K. To be honest: I never thought about that mouse-pointer-behaviour, as I allways dial in the values just hitting the pot and then moving... Maybe I'm using anotehr control sheme within the scope-settings: I move the mouse vertically up & the values increase. I never point on the spot of the pot where it should be set.
Sorry for my extremely long time taken to understand. I was really wondering 'bout such a problem for an over-guru like you, but this thing seems to dig really deep & I bet it can't be changed for 'normal' users - just a bet.
Martin

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:20 pm
by next to nothing
ah ofcourse, it reads calue according to x/y position relevant to the knobs center. maybe here is some way in dp to rotate the grid 150 degres around the z-axis?

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:43 pm
by Immanuel
Getting this right not only is useful for people using the "round" mouse modes. It is also needed for people with hardware controllers.

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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:44 pm
by hifiboom
first of all warp, your front end looks wonderful. congratulations.
Hope this will be released soon as a device.
I see your problem, but maybe this mousepointer relocation simply isn`t implemeneted in sdk?
maybe its a workaround for you to use the var setting "Movestyle" set to "1".
so the values change by moving mouse up and down. and not circulating. This seems most intuitive, for me at least.
not perfect but maybe a solution you can live with.
Else i am afraid you have to contact SC directly to fix in a new movestyle type. Or some kind of GUI_Range_Min / Max settings.
but I`m really sure that this won`t be a show-stopper with your device.
Damn I want it.

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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:53 pm
by HUROLURA
Ok, my two cents here.
I think I understood what you were asking for from the very beginning, but it is not that obvious to explain.
I made some attempts here to find a trick to achieve something that would help but I did not succeed.
The only solution I am thinking abouyt would be to change the design a little bit to make your input pot behave just the "standard" way by changing the numbering round it (just the same as what is available for the 3rd pot).
Maybe not that accurate copy but would save time to concentrate on audio design: if what you post is the current GUI, it is already smart and would desreve to also sound smart !!!
In any case, if I find something during my next device design, I will post it here right away.
CheerZ

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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:36 am
by kylie

> hifiboom wrote:first of all warp, your front end looks wonderful. congratulations.

found a pic of the original hardware. almost thought warp just posted an original pic.
but then, the keypad seems missing, and, btw, AMS is from burnley, not burney. that finally conviced me it must be a replica..
-greetings, markus-

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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:09 am
by hifiboom
warp, aren`t you afraid to get in conflicts with the ams label on the front.
Its not that I don`t like just curious?

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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:47 am
by MCCY
OMG I also thought it was an original picture. Congratulations for that illusion... I bet the sound is as good.

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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:11 am
by Warp69
The picture shown is an early mockup - the logo is changed and the text at the bottom is also changed - otherwise it looks almost like the picture - there's toolbar for preset functions on the final device.
And Im very impressed by the quality of the graphics - it's done by TSV Design.

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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:07 am
by hifiboom
I`m also extremly impressed!
i`ve download the picture and downsized it with windows picture viewer. Then it looks like a photo of the unit.
are you just finishing the device, or just checking the gui stuff. ??
I hope this is a messe release!
would you mind giving us some infos and tease us a bit.
you once said your newer algos are of much higher quality than the older.
I liked csr already, and the x100 series even more.
so this will smoke all other of your stuff and eat up a full 6dsp project card for breakfast ?

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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:20 am
by Warp69
This is not an announcement - just a question regarding some issues in the SDK regarding alternative ranges.
Im using the Scope platform for development and therefore have several Scope plugins that might never be released to the public.
This is ofcoursed based on the AMS RMX 16 - the exact same structures as the original - so its not comparable to the 100 series - not better, just different.
Kind regards
Martin

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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:58 am
by Shroomz~>
Hi Warp,
I think your best option is to consider that the vertical move style (drag up&down) is probably the most commonly used, but if you want to accommodate the rotational move style, you could simply rotate all of the surround numbers till the 1 @ 12 o'clock resides @ 7. That should work & I guess that's what Horulora was suggesting. Going deeper would require creating a custom GO & accompanying script afaik, but I haven't been able to achieve anything specifically like that yet.
all the best,
Shroomz

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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:49 am
by spacef

> Warp69 wrote:Nope - that's not the solution - my problem is not the frames.
> My problem is the circular movement that starts at 7 o'clock and ends at 5 o'clock. I want the circular movement to start at 12 o'clock and end at 9 o'clock for my in/out pots.

yes it is the animation that must be redone. I use it often to make a wider range or even reverse control.
You need your frame 1 at 12 oclock and a last frame at 9. adding a center frame is a good idea (for all types of potis)
I used this a lot , and other frames techniques on the FP mixer potis, to center 0, -12 or -6 db, they are all diferent animations.

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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:03 am
by Shroomz~>
I've done the same on some of my devices Mehdi, but that essentially just creates an illusion, it doesn't alter the inherent move style of the pot with it's new custom anim'.

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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:48 am
by spacef
In the FP 104 / 106 mixers, the Mono Master output has not only a differnt range, but has also a higher resolution around -6 dB.
It is fast at extremes, and get slower approaching -6 dB, so it is easy to select -6 db.
In a graphic program, that would be changing the timeline curve at the center (or putting more frames at center, or elsewhere).
Or I don't get it, are you talking about the Scope "round movement" or vertical/horizontal movement, and the fact that it is not visually sycable with the pots themselves... i don't think you can in scope right now.

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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:42 am
by hifiboom

> Warp69 wrote:This is not an announcement -......

sorry, I simply thought nobody would hire a company for designing a front end gui just for personal use.
But I may have been wrong.

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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:06 am
by Warp69
Its not for personal use either - This device will be released on vst/au - and it might be released for Scope, but that's still undecided.
As stated many times - all development of my plugins is done in SDK - that's including complete graphics, functionality, presets etc. And the Scope devices are more advance than their vst/au counterpart, infact.
Cheers

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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:29 am
by hifiboom
ah okay,
sorry for my misunderstanding.

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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:45 am
by Warp69
I do love the Scope environment - I really do - and I hope that I can release alot of devices in the future - thats also the reason why the Scope devices are complete.
Cheers

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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:56 am
by Sounddesigner

> stardust wrote:I can only encourage you. I wait for the Hall 100 and would immediately hop on that train.

+1 .
P.S. Love CSR, can't wait to see what future has in store.

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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:32 pm
by maky325
Eh... http://global.ebay.com/gbh/viItem?ItemId=160169739869

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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:44 pm
by hifiboom
a bit overpriced?
but looks really new condition.