## midi interpolator between 127 midi values

Device/Module Wishlist

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=22138

#### midi interpolator between 127 midi values

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:14 am
by the19thbear
I want a midi "smoothener" to use with my bcf200 and scope synths!
if you dont know what i'm talking about read below:
QUOTE from the problems forum:
i asked this question before but never found the solution, so here i go again
i have the bcf2000 midi controller. If i assign it to control, lets say the filter cutoff of a scope synth, lets say i know 007, i get uneven movement response: the filter has an audible uneven filter sweep, ( it skips certain freq's, = if i move a fader up slowly, the cutt off should rise slowly analogieously with the fader, but it skips certain points in the movement..). I can cotrolle some scope synth fine, and all my vst synth perfectly, so the problem is within scope, or at least within most scope synths..
( there are a few synths that work fine, but most of them have this problem)
any solutions?
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stardust
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Joined: 31 Jan 2004
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Posted: 24 Apr 2007 20:51 Post subject:
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It is a question of interpolating between the 127 midi values.
There are SDK modules to do that.
Also in Flexor there are modules to handle that.
These synths do not seem to be built with that modules in sdk.
END QUOTE
so it can be done with sdk modules!! anybody out there who would like to make a device that smoothens things up????
THANKS!

####

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:55 pm
by Lima
I think it's not possible.
the only one thing you can do is to set the amount of modulation of the parameter to a smaller interval. So the resolution will be increased accordly.

#### nl

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:01 pm
by the19thbear
thanks! i was told that it can be done, and that flexor has a module that can do it! then it should be possible to do it with sdk as well??

####

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:25 pm
by hubird
hm, this was discussed before, with no result eighter, if memory doesn't fail
Scope's Midi implementation is said to be weak more often.

#### jhi

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:57 am
by the19thbear
well well.... almost all of the scope synths sound like crap when i control them.... can the midi be interpoled in before it goes into scope?? maybe in cubase?
thanks!!

#### Re: jhi

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:40 am
by wolf

> hubird wrote:Scope's Midi implementation is said to be weak more often.

Well, in this single case it has nothing to do with midi implementation, but the protocol itself, see below.
You're right with your statement in general, though

> the19thbear wrote:well well.... almost all of the scope synths sound like crap when i control them....

isn't that a little bit over the top ?

> can the midi be interpoled in before it goes into scope?? maybe in cubase?

nope, midi is midi is midi .. midi controler have 128 steps. This needs to be solved inside the device (they'll still have 128 steps, but the changeover doesn't come that harsh).
There's nothing you can do from the outside, if you wanna use midi for automating, beside using pitchbend (which is not possible in scope beside for .. well .. pitch bending synths).
It'd would be great though, if one could use audio signal resolution to controle/modulate, however this is not to be expected in the near future due to the missing hardware needed

####

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:48 am
by alfonso
In the modular you can assign MIDI CC to a modulator, for example a constant value. it's output is not MIDI anymore and there the signal can be smoothed. This is usually what is done also inside well built synth devices, the thing to remember is that you can't "dezip" the MIDI signals, only the modulating ones.

#### Re: nl

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:13 am
by Lima

> the19thbear wrote:thanks! flexor has a module that can do it! then it should be possible to do it with sdk as well??

As alfonso said the signal is converted from midi to audio and then modulated accordly. This works only inside the modular shell, but not for the synths because they aren't builded with such a feature. They have only midi controls and, as Gary said, there's some protocol limitation (128 steps)

####

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:30 am
by hifiboom

> alfonso wrote:In the modular you can assign MIDI CC to a modulator, for example a constant value. it's output is not MIDI anymore and there the signal can be smoothed. This is usually what is done also inside well built synth devices, the thing to remember is that you can't "dezip" the MIDI signals, only the modulating ones.

alfonso, can you tell me which mod module does extract the different midi control channels into modulation signals which can be smoothed out with the flexor module?
the standard MVC only has outputs for velocity and aftertouch

####

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:02 pm
by alfonso

> hifiboom wrote:

> > alfonso wrote:In the modular you can assign MIDI CC to a modulator, for example a constant value. it's output is not MIDI anymore and there the signal can be smoothed. This is usually what is done also inside well built synth devices, the thing to remember is that you can't "dezip" the MIDI signals, only the modulating ones.

> alfonso, can you tell me which mod module does extract the different midi control channels into modulation signals which can be smoothed out with the flexor module?
> the standard MVC only has outputs for velocity and aftertouch

The Value modules, Adern's and CWA's Constant. You assign a MIDI CC to their faders in order to control them with a MIDI message and then you can smoothen their output before it reaches the modulation input.

####

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:13 pm
by hifiboom
ah no sorry I did not explain correctly,
I meant a mod module, that I connect to modulars midi in and the it outputs the different cc ...

####

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:28 am
by faxinadu

> alfonso wrote:

> > hifiboom wrote:

> > > alfonso wrote:In the modular you can assign MIDI CC to a modulator, for example a constant value. it's output is not MIDI anymore and there the signal can be smoothed. This is usually what is done also inside well built synth devices, the thing to remember is that you can't "dezip" the MIDI signals, only the modulating ones.

> > alfonso, can you tell me which mod module does extract the different midi control channels into modulation signals which can be smoothed out with the flexor module?
> > the standard MVC only has outputs for velocity and aftertouch

> The Value modules, Adern's and CWA's Constant. You assign a MIDI CC to their faders in order to control them with a MIDI message and then you can smoothen their output before it reaches the modulation input.

alfonso,
so basically its "constant val--->val smoother"?

#### ?

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:24 am
by the19thbear
so i take a constant value module and let a controller control the value slider, and connect to a smoothener, and then connect the smoothener out to lets say a filters cutoff mod input?? right?`
what cw module do you use to smoothen out the output of the constant value?
thanks!!

####

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 8:17 am
by Shayne White
Full 32-bit modulation, which will be smooth, is only possible WITHIN a device, including a single instance of Modular. It has a resolution of 0 to 2147483647 or -2147483647 to 2147483647. Some of CW's later synths have 32-bit interpolation built in -- MinIMax, for instance. But if a synth does not come with internal interpolation, you're out of luck, because the only way synths and keyboard controllers can talk to each other is through MIDI CC, which has 128 steps only.
There is one function of MIDI that is high resolution, and that's RPN (Registered Parameter Number) -- but no keyboard controller nor any synths support it, and I've never been able to figure out why.
Hope that clarifies things,
Shayne

#### thanks

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 9:00 am
by the19thbear
thank you! I can make it smoothe in mod 2 using the trick to filter the midi signal with a 6db filter. But i agree with you! why dont any synths respond to RPN?? It is SO smooth! if i use my bcf2000 to control a volume slider in the scope mixer, then it sounds bad because i can hear the 127 little steps in volume! well well.. that would be a dream come true: a mixer that supports rpn.. or atleast has internal interpolation....
THANKS!