## BigMotherMixer MK2014

Device/Module Wishlist

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=33236

#### BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:26 pm
by dante

> Gaslight_Twilights wrote:Man, if S|C put out a group of effects like UAD, they would blow UAD out of the water. With Scope's collection of synths, virtually unlimited routing options, superior converters and pre amps, and thoudands of other things that make Scope incredible, UAD wouldn't stand a chance. They would be a laughing stock compared to Scope

If S|C could put out a mixer like the following, they would blow all out of water !! Creamware had the right idea when they build BigMixer ergonomically, but things went backwards with STM IMHO.
Why ? Because in the real world hardware mixer, you dont 'click' on a channel, then tweak its settings on a box on the left.
All the settings are right there - above the channel fader. Even just a 16 channel version of this would be awesome.

  BigMotherMixer Mk2014
  BigMotherMixer_MK2014.JPG (180.94 KiB) Viewed 11786 times

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:43 am
by tgstgs
it was called the bigbugmixer back than guess why;

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:14 am
by dante
I don't have to guess. Phase coherence. You think STM has it ? There's a reason I use the ScopeRise mixer.
What I'm posting here is a requirement, not a solution.

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:28 am
by tgstgs
talking about the bigblue;
not only phase i remember guiprobl. and and . .
stm should be ok;
ralf d. made them;
good vibes

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:32 am
by dante
Then check again. Check.dev actually.
I suppose what I'm driving at here is the ergonomic aspect, not the implementation. BigMixer was designed on cards, but what's been tried on XITE ?
Anyway, like I said .... The ergonomics.....
Some vibes arrive later then others...but they are all good.

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:43 am
by tgstgs
you put manually on 1 dsp and get trouble?
without using any effect of course;

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:18 am
by dante
I never use manual DSP placement, not even for just synth poly - I use PCI for synths.
Check Aux/return.
Question is whether it's possible to have a mixer with comp/eq all in line visually and not have to only see / adjust one selected Chanel at a time.
Obviously there would be implementation constraints - phase, DSP, which may limit the number of channels and / or sample rate ....but do those constraints mean it's not viable at all ?

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:36 am
by garyb
i love the STM2448 and 4896 ergonomics. i open the main mixer panel in one screen and the entire fader panel in another. it actually is like working on a large-frame hardware mixer for me.

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:14 am
by dante
Good answer.
It also means though that if channels had everything in line then you wouldnt need the main mixer taking up a whole screen, so that screen would be freed up for something else.
Although maybe not as many channels because they would be wider.
ScopeRise mixer has channels only, but no option to show all 32 at once .... Rather it toggles between 1-16 and 17-32. I'd rather have all 1-32 taking up a full width of a single screen.
But even then I have to double click on insert slots to open stuff which is Not the same as any real desk I've worked.
'Like having real hardware' is a Scope selling point isn't it ?
And with today's wider landscape style flat screens with higher res, this is one aspect that may be more viable now than it was at the time all these other Scope mixers were designed.
Its already been done in Native :

  Reason SSL
  reason-ssl.JPG (46.45 KiB) Viewed 11662 times

And this is only a 21" screen (18 stereo channels + master section) - imagine what could be displayed on 30" or more...oh, and another good thing about the Reason SSL design - the number of channels is dynamic... the way it is on the Scope micromixer but not on any of the larger ones.
Much harder to do on DSP than in Native it seems...

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:22 am
by JoPo
Interesting...
Ah ! If Wolf mixers would work with Scope 6.0 ! I'd really like to use them. Exactly my need.
But there is no eq on channel -> takes less space...

  Wolf mixer.jpg (352.39 KiB) Viewed 11632 times

Which mixer do you call Scoperise mixer, Dante ?

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:48 pm
by dante
I call this one the ScopeRise mixer - its a variation on the XITED mixer :

  DAS ScopeRise Mixer
  das-scoperise-mixer.jpg (230.07 KiB) Viewed 11595 times

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:00 am
by jhulk
inserts and aux on a hardware mixer are outboard gear you only have send pots
and aux pots with return pots
even in my yam digital mixer if using inserts i still have to access a different paged screen

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:42 am
by JoPo
On STM, they could put eq & comp knobs on the 'channels' view but it would be much bigger on the screen.
The ideal function would be to have the choice to have eq & comp settings on the channels view.
I like to have the choice but more choice user has, more option there is to deal with and the application becomes complicated.
I agree with you anyway : Scope mixer, STM or a new one can be improved a lot in GUI and functions.

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:52 am
by Yogimeister
Is there a "light" mixer (dsp-wise) with stereo auxs and a layer of group channels anyone can recommend ?
(There is cwmixer which is great but pretty dsp heavy hogs up my current 15dsp setup - it gets too large with groups and send functioning ...)
I am currently usinf STM2448 for ASIO summing and a dynamic mixer for Scope synths which feeds into the STM (first direct , and then after sampling - from the ASIO sources)

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:30 pm
by JoPo
Dante !
I'm searching for the ScopeRise mixer everywhere... At DAS site, at ScopeRise, on my HD, I found this :

  ScopeRise mixer.jpg (177.05 KiB) Viewed 11352 times

But nowhere the ScopeRise mixer you're showing !
I'd like to try it : it has 4 aux. which are missing on the one I have !
Where can I find it ?
I don't find anymore the DAS download page either ! Where is it gone ?
If it goes on like this, I'll not find my feets or some other part of my body anymore.. Help !

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:03 pm
by JoPo
Dante ! Haven't you seen this ancient thread coming up ?
Is the DAS mixer you're showing us avaible ?

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:22 pm
by dante
Sorry - missed your question first time.
It's not available generally - you can ask Eric from DAS though, since he built it for me as a custom request.

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:51 pm
by JoPo
Ah.. Ok, Dante..
Thanks for the info. In fact, it interrest me a lot since it has 4 aux & 32 channels. I imagine it's less dsp eater than STM...
I think I gonna pm them.

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:59 pm
by dante
Its light on DSP - 32 mono channels and no FX until you add them.

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:27 pm
by Yogimeister
Does it have stereo auxs ?

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:38 pm
by jksuperstar
Looking at the inserts Dante loaded, they all looking like Stereo aux! (S at the end of the devices name)

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:50 pm
by dante
FX Inserts 1 - 4 are stereo. I use the first 3 for FX and the fourth for mic foldback

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:48 am
by Yogimeister
Can the (mono) channels be coupled to make stereo chennels ?
(And are the Auxs "post-pan" ?)
Thanks and sorry for the drilling questions

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:01 am
by dante
There's no coupling. Just use 2 mono for stereo, and pan one left and one right.
Hard left and right, or not so hard if you want to center the sound a little.
Not sure on aux - never took notice.

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:18 am
by JoPo
I just realized that Roy's Cwm32S mixer is what I'm looking for ! I can't explain how I forgot it.
I like a lot mute group feature and Cwm32S mixer doesn't have it.. But I can easily handle it with busses.
I like the 32ch view.

  Cwm32S.jpg (501.52 KiB) Viewed 9940 times

I gonna test it.

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:42 pm
by dante
Yes Roys mixers are excellent, I especially like the idea of having a mix of mono and stereo channels ready to go, like on his 16x16 :
http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_15/cmw_mast.htm

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:02 pm
by Yogimeister
Jopro, Dante and CW (Roy):
Thats my favorite mixer so far ...! (not that I tried alot of premium ones ...)
a bit worried since there is no "phase correction" button - but I will check it on my next project ...

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:45 pm
by astroman
don't be mislead by the name - that button has nothing at all to do with the signal itself
it just assures that modules loaded into a channel don't cross DSP (chip) memory boundaries
(for example a part of the code is executed on chip #1, the rest on chip #2)
as chips have to be treated sequentially, there's a few samples offset
(which would spoil a stereo signal or eq/filter response, modulation fx etc)
if the code of the mixer anticipates that (which all 'modern' devices do), the button is not needed
it was kind of a workaround in the early Scope days, when developers weren't aware of the situation
cheers, Tom

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:52 pm
by Yogimeister
Thanks (I was hoping that was just "silently" built into this CW mixer...)
However, according to Gary - the button is to keep all channel inputs at the same phase (from what I understood - what happens after the signal enters the channel is not affected by the phase comp - according to Gary)
(See my "mixing in scope" in the prolem solving forum for a peep at my current struggles with latencies and phase problems ... (Currently with the STM mixer)
P.S. - "I will check it in my next project" means I will measure latencies ....
Ive used the mixer before and love it ... (Though it is a bit DSP heavy with all channels and busses active ...

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:25 pm
by garyb
the phase correct keeps the INPUTS of the mixer in phase. once the signals travel through the channel, this can change.
even the BEST $500,000+ hardware functions the same.

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:38 pm
by Yogimeister
Gary - can you please comment on my thread in the problem solving area ... I found my self lost in a world of mix-phase-combing-worldofpain ... :/
Also, IS there any wayto achieve this without the SDK/Xite ?
(Is there a potential of having latencies WITHIN a device - like having the low/high cut filters on a different DSP than the rest of the modules in a SL9000 strip - or different inserts on different DSPs in an MSslot device ?
Thanx

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:41 pm
by garyb
i did, but i don't understand what you are doing.
are you mixing after the completion of all the tracks, or are you trying to mix as you go? you can answer in a PM if you want.

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:31 am
by JoPo
What a pity !
By building my project with Cwm32S mixer, I began to have cpu spikes by adding asio connected channels. Since it didn't happen to my system before, I tried the same project with the STM 4896 (I'm on Xite-1) and the cpu performances are much better : nomore spikes.
What happens ?
Is Cwm32S mixer using more computer ressource than STM ? How is it possible ? It's a pity because one reason I use Scope is because more computer ressource are left to the DAW, if Scope uses it, I don't have anymore for the DAW...
So -> back to STM...
I'd like a 32 stereo channels mixer + 4 stereo aux + some busses less heavy than STM4896 but which leaves my computer cpu as quiet as possible !
If I understand well, the Cwm32S mixer, as it is now, allows Scope user to save Scope ressource, which is very good if needed.
But Roy, if you read this thread, would it possible to make (in not more than few minutes) a Cwm32S mixer which would leave the computer cpu alone ? After using it, I really like it and I'd like to keep it.
Thanks !

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:30 pm
by Yogimeister
It seems like it really hogs graphics resources on my DAW ...
Do you have the same problems with the gui closed ?

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:44 pm
by JoPo
!! Damn you're right !!
When I close the mixer gui, cpu ressource goes back at a normal level.
I never close the mixer gui, that's why I couldn't notice that.
Thanks, Yogi ! I'm going to use it finally ! Excellent ! I just have to close the mixer gui as often as possible.
But if it was possible to optimize the gui graphic ressource, it would be so nice..!

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:33 pm
by Yogimeister
My pleasure, you're welcome
Yeah... Same here ... also not sure if my situation is normal or can be optimized .... Probably could - But I dont want to start digging in too deep ...
I think the main culprits are the channel level indicators .... On my machine the gui (responsivity and graphics) also lag a bit sometimes
(just started a new project with it and it seems to lag/load even more than I remembered ... Even though my CPU usage is barely at 1/3)
... Maybe this can be bettered with a longer ULLI setting ....
In any case , even when using the STM mixer - try to disable the VUs if you dont need em (especially on the channels gui) .... It also lightens the load on the CPU/graphics bus ....
Still a VERY awesome mixer though

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:39 pm
by Yogimeister
Btw - there is the routeJr (and maybe even the original bigmother mixer ... Not sure of the name) - which is basically very simple gui graphics- but has stereo auxes and 2 levels of bussing ...

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:22 am
by JoPo
Routejr ?
Never heard of it. Do you know where to find it and how it looks like ?
Merci !

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:56 am
by Yogimeister
Hmmm ... Couldnt find routejr in the search ....
I will go over my devices and see if I can find the device and name (it was posted on this forum if I am not mistaken)

#### Re: BigMotherMixer MK2014

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:58 pm
by Yogimeister
Here it is
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php ... t=Route_jr