## Vintage analog random detuner

Device/Module Wishlist

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=23692

#### Vintage analog random detuner

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:31 pm
by erminardi
I'm too busy and rokie in midi devices to build it with SDK...
My idea is a simply midi filter device that treat the incoming keyboard signal and "dirt" it with a little (user selectable) pitch instability typical of the vintage analog machine.
This because all of Scope synths are very realistic, but they lacks of this "feature" to be "perfect emulation".
My ispiration comes from the ModII patch "3 osc" that uses a little AD envelope to detune the pitch. So this patch sounds to me a lot realistic.
Just imagine your Minimoog or Odissey emulation with this "age-izer" filter!
To close the set of "vintage-lizer devices" it could be interesting a simply device that filter the incoming audio signal and add a realistic background random noise + power hum thypical of the real vintage. With a couple of knobs to mix all together.
It's a stupid idea?
Let me know if yes or no...
(and a USB device that relases in the ambient the smell and the warm of the old transistors and AC/DC transformers)

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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:36 am
by HUROLURA
Do you mean a pitch bend auto generator based on a random waveform LFO would be OK ?
Or is the resolution of such a signal to low ?
CheerZ

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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:57 am
by erminardi
I mean somethin like a envelope with random action that detune the incoming midi signal of few percentual.
The modular II patch called (if I rememember right) "3 osc" has inside the exact concept applied.

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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:19 am
by dawman
I use SpaceF's Synth FX in BBII, and put the SSB Modulator in one of it's insert effects slots to do this. The SSB rates can be adjusted slightly to taste, but they can detune synths well. The second insert slot has the SSB Phaser set at a similar rate so it sweeps the sound at the same time.
I have my SE-1X going through this effect, while the Pro One remains un affected. Both are layered monophonically and the effect sounds pretty cool if used on one only. It seems as though the SE-1X takes a deep breath and blows out a slight de tuning which gives it a psuedo type effect, of voice card de tuning similar to the way I have my Oberheim's trim pots set up. I use an Oscillascope to set each card where I want them, but they still go out slightly w/o that effect anyway.
If using this effect polyphonically it tends to get over emphasized, but in mono it works pretty well. Like a FAT BASTARD should.

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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:50 am
by HUROLURA
The way you achieve this is in the audio world, Scope4live. This is the other end of the story but would probably have a different result than what would be done when making this kind of thing at the source.
The initial idea was to use midi (so to implement this kind of thing at the source). The drawback of the MIDI solution would probably be the amount of data to generate which could make it a bit stepped.
In my opinion, the best way would be to have such thing implemented directly inside tthe pitch control of the synth oscillator. But this solution would mean it has to be done for each plug-in.
The good thing is that both approach (post audio and midi) would be possible independently from the plug-in itself and could be used together !!!
And just imagine how dirt would be such thing applied to a plug which has this kind of feature already inside (3 ways to dirt the oscillator pitch ...)
CheerZ
HUROLURA

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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:40 am
by dawman
My knowledge is somewhat limited, but I do know the sounds that I am trying to achieve, so hence my fixes.
I will explain how we did this in the analog Oberheims in hopes that it might help someone create such a device.
There were 8 voice cards in my Oberheim. On each voice card there were trim pots for tuning / detuning.
We would hook up an Oscillascope and slightly detune each card.
Playing polyphonically the cards would be triggered consecutively so that each keystrike would go to a different card and it's VCO's.
When playing Monophonically though, these cards were engaged simultaneously, giving it that FAT BASTARD sound which escapes us in the virtual world.
My fix is a meger attempt at adding that effect. But having it layered over a signal which is unaffected works well for overall thickness.
I would prefer it at the source though.

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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:00 am
by Mr Arkadin
i love whacking things out of tune and modulation etc. My old JD-990 had two features which would be great on Scope synths as they stay in tune too damn well
Function 1 (shared with the JD-800) was a parameter called Random situated in the Osc section. This was a percentage parameter and added a random amount of pitchbend up or down from the note you were playing. By using a subtle amount even consecutively playing the same note gave a slightly 'drifting' quality, like old analogue synths.
Function 2 (only on the JD-990) was a great little beast called Analog Feel and added a random amount of continuous modulation - almost like have some mad random LFO assigned to pitch. It gave sounds that Polymoog Vox Human-type randomness. Not sure how it worked - again small percentages worked best.
i would love to see these either as a MIDI device to apply to all synths or built into a synth. i think i'll be dropping a line to space f

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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:25 am
by dawman
Those worked well on the JD800's I remember them vividly. At that time I laughed at why one would need such a virtual thingy.
But after using Scope synths, and hearing their perfect alignment it became quite clear that I would be trying out different tricks.

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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:56 am
by wolf
You could use LFO2Control from my MidiToolBox. It doesn't send pitchbend though, but that could change

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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:28 pm
by erminardi

> Mr Arkadin wrote:i love whacking things out of tune and modulation etc. My old JD-990 had two features which would be great on Scope synths as they stay in tune too damn well
> Function 1 (shared with the JD-800) was a parameter called Random situated in the Osc section. This was a percentage parameter and added a random amount of pitchbend up or down from the note you were playing. By using a subtle amount even consecutively playing the same note gave a slightly 'drifting' quality, like old analogue synths.
> Function 2 (only on the JD-990) was a great little beast called Analog Feel and added a random amount of continuous modulation - almost like have some mad random LFO assigned to pitch. It gave sounds that Polymoog Vox Human-type randomness. Not sure how it worked - again small percentages worked best.
> i would love to see these either as a MIDI device to apply to all synths or built into a synth. i think i'll be dropping a line to space f

Interesting!
Thanks fo the info =)
I love to read this tread.