## create your own Scopefx without DP

Scope and XITE Development

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=27738

#### create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:06 am
by olase
To create your own dll or device driver you don't need a DP don't you?
But you need a skeleton c or cpp file for both to have the right structures or objects to ensure that the interface between scope works. Is there anybody who can support with these skeleton files?
cheers,
olase

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:49 am
by astroman
well, technically you're kind of right, but a small example probably will make it clear why you're wrong tho...
a small routine in pseudocode:
code( A, B, C, D ) :- ( find( B, 2, E ), E \= ``, copy( -1, _ ) ~> D ) <~ A ~> C .
Even if I'd send you the plain source of this program, you couldn't do much with it except ask yourself what the heck is this doing ???
or did you figure out that it's a text processor for tab separated stuff etc ?

> more readable it looks like:
> my_text_split( MyText, Separator, LeftPart, RightPart ) :-
> ( find( Separator, 2, Found ),
> Found \= ``,
> copy( -1, _ ) ~> RightPart
> ) <~ MyText ~> LeftPart .
> operation:
> 'find' looks for the separator item, reading from the 'MyText' variable
> if the result is not empty (separator found)
> then it copies all characters from the current position into RightPart
> the remainder is written to LeftPart
> note the beauty of the bidirectional buffer handling and nested output:
> (all char IO within parathesis reads from) <~ MyText ~> output

This is probably the most simple (useful) example beyond the classic 'hello world !' stuff and you're welcome to post the c/c++ equivalent
The declarations already would be longer than my whole program.
Btw an average programmer would (most likely) yield less than 10% of the performance because my pseudocode is backed by an assembly language implementation of the supporting pattern matching and buffer handling routines.
(btw the code is a snippet from a real world app)
You got the idea, don't you ?
Scope is the very same but way more complex for signal processing (instead characters) and on top of the pseudocode-layer there's an additional graphic representation.
Of course you can build a Scope device without SDK
You only need to know the specs of the 'pseudolanguage', it's syntax etc...
Then it's fairly easy to write your own compiler for it.
But let's assume (just for fun's sake) that you really succeeded...
For each and every(!) test step during developement you'd have to generate and transfer your device over to the Scope environment. LOL
In SDK a 'live' test environment is provided for interactive work.
There really is no coding whatsoever (in the sense you know it from C programming) going on in SDK or DP.
You can safely giveup that idea - after (almost exactly) 3 years
SDK is pseudocode with it's very own language and it's (almost certainly) 'superior' in performance and processing quality than any average to good 'custom code' implementation.
Just as the text processor above uses high quality machine code for the 'dirty' part of the job, Scope uses processing modules in DSP assembly or X86 code.
People don't seem to like this idea, as there's always some '...but I might do it better...' implied. Rubbish - those who really 'could do it' are smart enough not to bother with such questions at all. They would just act... and appreciate the tremendous amount of help the Scope system offers.

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:03 am
by olase
astroman, astroman, astroman... i hope you don't know it better...
There are a lot of things you can't create with the devs and atoms from the SDK library. It is for sure that a lot of devices from different developers come over with support
functions written in C, C++ and x86 assembler wrapped in DLL's and drivers.
>>There really is no coding whatsoever (in the sense you know it from C programming) going on in SDK or DP.
Wrong! Nobody else than you is talking about coding in the SDK or DP. Dynamic Link Librarys and device drivers mostly comiled with the MS SDK and DDK or Vc.
And the language you use is C or C++ and not any 'Pseudolanguage'!
>>SDK is pseudocode with it's very own language...
Wrong! What you talking about is the scope script. Scope Script is a language for processing asynchronus control data and not for processing syncronous data like the stream.
>>People don't seem to like this idea, as there's always some '...but I might do it better...' implied. Rubbish - those...
As i described above you can't build everything from the atom and dev library. So nobody think like '...but I might do it better...'!
You know even if someone would think like that he is more pleasent to me then people there are ALWAYS '...but I might know it better...'!
But for this time you do not know it better.
Your answer was really embarrassing and everybody who read it know that you do not have the big background knowledge as you pretend.
Here astroman try to find the mistake in my 'pseudocode':
Klugscheißerthread()
{
for(;;) {
if(read_a_new_post()) {
if(do_i_have_really_knowledge())
post();
else
/**do_not_post();**/
post();
}
}
}
astroman, nobody cares for you boring text processor mak up language also if you alraedy developed some boring sql stamements for an ora database.
Please stop to compare aplles with pears and think that it's very clever.
cheers,
olase

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:33 am
by FrancisHarmany
Olase, olase, olase.... your reply was really embarrasing! You know better. Go to your corner.

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:03 am
by olase
Ah... it just depends from the point of view...

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:08 am
by FrancisHarmany
You are probably right!
What are you planning to create anyway ?

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:37 am
by hifiboom
lol

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:58 am
by tgstgs
//these are for sure the best vibes to get whatever help you asked for;
////////////
--
i read a lot of 'is not possible with sdk' posts here and also a lot of it defacto is possible;
we may discuss if its 'nice' to implement like this;
but 'not possible' are words not possible for a developer!
theres aways a workaround you know__
--------
hint:
without is wrong
together theyre strong
anyway i think
'to give knowledge on how to access a platform in whatever way should be up to the owner of this platform only_'
--------
edit vibes

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:31 am
by dawman
slappin'.jpg

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:46 am
by tgstgs
after rereading i have to appologiese
wasnt polite myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SORRY vibes

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:00 am
by dawman
I would be impressed by actually seeing something made w/o DP/SDK, as opposed to the cackling formulas and dreams written on Beer Stein coasters.......

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:12 am
by tgstgs
you not only saw already, you have!
harmonic bundle has additional c++ code;
but without sdk it makes no sense at all;
much much easier to write a vst.dll
good vibes to Nevada

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:30 am
by astroman

> olase wrote: astroman, nobody cares for you boring text processor mak up language also if you alraedy developed some boring sql stamements for an ora database.
> Please stop to compare aplles with pears and think that it's very clever. ...

ROTFL
indeed I had a very, very boring day with a text processor job, but you saved it
cheers for that, dude
anyway, I am pretty certain that my example represents the situation correctly
abstraction is one of the main virtues in programming, probably not your strongest ability
and if your insight about SFP during the last 3 years didn't result in a little bit more than the question that started this thread, well then... forget about it, Mr. Wannabe Code Wizz
I don't have to pretend anything here, unfortunately I completely misunderstood your intentions.
Surely won't happen again
cheers, Tom

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:41 am
by dawman
Well here's an example of an SDK/DP device made w/ C++ then.
I just thought I'd let you know about a workaround I have for mixing Mono w/ Stereo effects in a single shell.
I love the sound of the Virus not because it is FAT, it isn't, but they made it FAT with a kick ass Overdrive/Distortion/Filter. So I decided to use a real analog FAT BASTARD inside of Wolf's Matrix Insert with the SSB Modulator and Dynomic w/ dual SAW's on selected Harmonics. This Buzzy FAT BASTARD rocks !!! I use SpaceF's CC2x2 to move the Global Range slider as a great filter type of sound.
I just shove down my expression pedal for 3 seconds of zipper/jumpless free sweeping, and then pull back on the expression pedal for 3 seconds in the other direction.
I know it isn't as perfect as a sequencer can do, but I like my own foot and human control, and the sounds are sick. Plus I have the snappy dual resistor upgrade that makes my envelopes on the synth pop like a Bullwhip......
What I discovered that works really well when I need a super long accurate sweep w/o a sequencer, I lean over to my QWERTY and use the left/right arrows for 6-7 seconds of zipper free sweeps on the Global Range slider.
Tonight I will add the realtime Reverse Loopers you made and really get sick.
So if you were considering making stereo versions of your devices............FAHGEDDABOWDIT.
Good Vibes From Nevada........
untitled.JPG

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:32 am
by astroman
Jimmy, the point isn't that you cannot include code that's written in C or PlusPlus or whatever.
Just look at VDAT or the mystery oscilloscope dlls
It's a regular approach in many developement systems to 'extend' their capabilities.
But you cannot do it while ignoring the SFP environment, as was the original question of this thread.
That's what tgstgs expressed by

> ...harmonic bundle has additional c++ code;
> but without sdk it makes no sense at all...

cheers, Tom

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:02 am
by dawman
01-090630_1049.mp3
cacklings.JPG
Whatever he says and does I cannot comprehend, but I like what he makes w/ C++ & SDK.

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:03 am
by tgstgs
thanks for translating my pseudoenglish;
good vibes to germany from vienna

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:08 am
by tgstgs
whatever developers may create;
it needs an artist to make it livin;
thanks a lot for supporting our plugs _

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:31 pm
by netguyjoel

> XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:
> 01-090630_1049.mp3
> Whatever he says and does I cannot comprehend, but I like what he makes w/ C++ & SDK.

Just sick man.... fatter than the heffers at the Biker Bar or the typical Wisconsin woman.... SE1x...you were controlling the filters w/ a pedal..while playin it live...sweet...

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:32 pm
by dawman
Here's another junky sounding mp3.
This sounds so sick through real speakers w/o conversion loss.
When music is recorded clean the mp3's aren't so bad but synths harmonics and distorted material sound awful. But the idea of the Harmonic Bundle can be shown.
DYNOMIC.mp3

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:16 am
by iSiStOy
I like it!
A lot!
I like it so much that I originally posted this in another discussion by mistake
Keep on the good work M. JV

#### Re: create your own Scopefx without DP

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:44 pm
by fmpsycho
make a code like this is very very complex just make music
if you want to be a developer anything is possible