## MKJ-8 first sight

Scope and XITE Development

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=23347

#### MKJ-8 first sight

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:29 pm
by hifiboom
I found the time and inspiration to do this in the end.
Its far from being close2release, but at least the solo mode works half decent.
So here you have a first look on the design, which is also a pre_design and may be changed too.
most of the important stuff is still missing, like keyfollow stuff, modulation, integrating better sounding saw oscillators and so so ....
But now I am relative sure, that it will see the daylight soon or l8er.
I don`t know how good I am at making it fine-sounding, but lets see.
Don`t expect too much, but if it turns out to be perfect sounding, then its fine too.
The problem is: the "free sdk" seems downgarded and gives no options to build in antialiased stuff like high class filter, which I would like to add.This seems to be an priviledge for guys like RED or for sure Soniccore themselfes.
It should be possible to add the dual mode later, the split mode is of less interest as it can be easily replicated by two instances and a midi key splitter or so.

Attachments
    jupiter_pre_look2.JPG (130.63 KiB) Viewed 3449 times

####

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:39 am
by hifiboom
inspired by the origin, but I guess it will be my own signature sound at the end, so no 100% 1:1 copy.
Lets say a similar architecture.
But I may extend the features at some points and cut them down at other a bit.
In digital world you can build in more feature at no cost.

####

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:39 am
by dawman
I would love to see an SDK project made to be used with an external hardware filter using CV.
I was going to have an external hardware MOTM rig built, but the design keeps changing and has become a very high priced experiment. I can't see spending 3000 USD on something with so many limitations w/ polyphony, and have no way of knowing it will work.
I think the ultimate design for synths would be a hybrid design where external hardware filters could be used via CV. Our DP and even SDK software is top notch, but the weakest link is in the filters.
Prowave's newest Moog filter immatates the Moog perfectly, but that pulsating sound that should sound bubbling, and buzzy, just distorts. That electrical sound just can't be attained through anything other than hardware.
John's SSM filter is the closest emulation to hardware I have ever heard anywhere. It's just that's are far as the design can take us.
I firmly believe the best sounding synth in the world would be for everything designed through DSP, and have external hardware analog filters.
My friend purchased that FAT BASTARD Code 2 for his studio from Nova here in the USA. It sounds so rich and bubbly w/ 4 voices. He couldn't afford the 8 voice poly model, but can upgrade at a later time. Those filters are the same design on my SE-1x. I really notice the virtual filter's soft underbelly when I play my monophonic synth. But when mixing the ProOne w/ it's new filters for leads it is a better synth sound now, for the real analog gives strength to the virtual emulation. I was using the C4T but can no longer use it due to it's lack of parameters in the Pitch bend department. Too bad, as that was a great synth, the name it carries ( R.I.P. ) hopefully is temporary.
Can the SDK software be capable of such a design?
Play a real hardware synth Roland, Oberheim, Moog, or ARP. And tell me what you hear. I mean to offend no developer here, just using my ears,in hopes of the ultimate mono synth .
1 ) The weakest link in hardware are the Oscillator Options, that's where our platform shines.
2 ) The weakest link in virtual is the filters. That's where analog shines.
3 ) You'd think someone would have merged these two strengths by now.
If I had the patience for DP, I would do it. My problem is that after 10 or 15 minutes of reading I unconciously stroll over to play my keyboards. I often wake up and do that also. I am somewhat abnormal, but it has brought me this far.

####

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:51 am
by hifiboom
Jimmy, I am exactly with you.
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=22839
And I think for a monophonic synth I could integrate the ins and outs to integrate an external analog hardware filter without bigger problems.
I think it would be more difficult to adress more than one voice and the different filter in and outs, as I think there is no single adressing of voices possible.
But I didn`t look into this too carefully.
Apart from that:
It would be really in favour to the platform if Adern, Soniccore or JohnBowen would release a high class filter for free to use in SDK with non-selling purposes.
Doesn´t have to be one of the characteristic filters like moog, prophet or prodyssey.
There could be a rule that you write down on the GUI which filter technology works inside and so it would be some kind of marketing boost for the own products.
And at the end we all profit from free devices and if the soundquality raises, I think its a good thing.

####

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:04 am
by dawman
Good,
When can you get started?

####

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:13 am
by dawman
MOTM guy has the current financially unfeasible design.
He is very helpful. But it is just too expensive for me.
I would love to have a mono design, w/ the option of later adding more poly.
I must have been in Atlantic City at Trumps whem you wrote the idea in the discussion thread.
This is exactly what i have figured out how to do in modular using the CV modules and external MOTM's. Mono would be 1/3 of the price. I could try that, but I like your idea better.

####

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:40 am
by hifiboom

> scope4live wrote:Good,
> When can you get started?

Jimmy, do you have the external filterbox already?
so I would add you as a beta tester.... and we could try to integrate such a feature.
I would add a switch "hardware analog filter" and you would have to connect certain MKJ-8 filter ins and outs + envelope output to the filter_mod.
But at first I have to work a bit more on the basic structure.

####

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:20 pm
by dawman
Just send me a list of what to buy.
I don't play games.
I quit school in 3ed grade, just 'cause they have recess, and I don't play.
Seriously though, I was prepared to spend a couple large on the MOTM's and decided 3000 USD as an experiment was just a bad ROI.
I can buy the filters, and even the ones you suggest. I have an old Sherman that I'm selling as they still get a good price on ebay.
Tell me what, when, and where.
A Cross-continental experiment in Scope. I'm all for it. Besides this was a Germen invention, I think it's already in your genes.
Let Me Know, I am on vacation to Disneyworld w/ Scope4live Jr. and then to Tahoe. I will be back in Vegas October 26th for 4 days before I go do this Psycho / Swamp gig. I can get the hardware now, or on the 26th.
I'm Stoked,

####

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:00 pm
by hifiboom
Jimmy,
keep in mind we have no prove that it works at all.
The Sherman could be fine for doing a test.
What inputs and outputs does the sherman have? only audio in/out or also control signals.
if I look at the shippmann filter it seems like the envelopes can be triggered to gate signals. If the creamware gate module can send a compatible gate signal to the box (which has to be proven first) you could trigger the analog filterenvelope to the software synth via an audio out.
http://www.schippmann-music.com/ebbeundflut.html
the routing would be
softsynth (both outputs as pads on the soft synth)
-audio out (before filterstage)
-gate trigger out
both these pads should be connected to 2 audio outputs
back on softsynth there would be inputs for taking audio signal back into the softsynth.
The other option would be to use the digital envelopes from the CW synth, routed to audio outputs and then into the VCF of the shippmann.
I`m pretty sure that this would work.
The Shippmann is very expensive, so we have to find a filter that is relative cheap and also has inputs for controlling the filters via audio signals.
It doesnt make sense to build a hybrid monophonic synth around a 1200€ filter, as you can find a full monophonic analog synth for the same price also.
We just need a filter that has audio in/out and a vcf_input for a low price.
Problem is the cheap ones only have audio in/out, so they are useless, the more expensive ones don`t make sense for a hybrid_synth in terms price/useage ratio.
polyphony should be almost impossible without the help of Soniccore themselves, as you would need voice adressing intelligence inside the synth.
Waldorf has done this on the AFB, but it was problematic due to the usb bus, which introduces a latency. At least it did work.
BTW, why don`t Waldorf and Soniccore team up to build the oversynth.?
They both have knowledge that would complement quite well.

####

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:19 pm
by dawman
Brotha' Man HiFiBoom,
This must be incorporated into Modular like JBowens Prowave Modular. That is if you wish to use your emulation of the Jupiter, which noone has done to any sucess here. I would use the CV controls from inside of the Modular shell.
You should talk via email to the developer at MOTM. Then I will purchase the external modules which I believe he already has available.
The super band pass similar to the CS80 is also very desirable. Several filters would be used, w/ the ability to add more Oscillators and poly at a later date.
These are a few that could be used.
I only need you to create a shell in Modular with the proper CV modules.
Talk to the MOTM man, his shit is tight concerning this. We have gone over a design more than once together. He will ask if you know me probably.
Brotha' Man Stardust, I demo'd a rack mounted yellow ugly ass Waldorf-Q a couple of months back. It's sound made up for the ugly ass yellow color though. Even though it is digital sounding, it's filter's were so clean and the range could probably make neighborhood dogs go nuts. But they make high quality synths 4 sure.
Strength, and Luck.

####

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:12 pm
by hifiboom
I`m sure the filter CV(I guess control voltage?) input is for an envelope trigger signal to control the filter cutoff.
We only need to know if the voltages of an A16 or pulsar out are proper to drive the max control voltage of the filter in.
But a simple amp module could do the trick.

####

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:17 pm
by dawman
You make sure to kepp me posted, I am watching this thread.

####

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:30 pm
by dawman
Agreed,
Mine will be 50% paid off tomorrow.
I am tempted from all sides with nice devices, and new hardware. So whenever a have a free large to spend, one goes towards vacation, one goes towards Solaris.
It's John's turn now.
The Q really was a nice deal for 375 USD, but it was ugly yellow, and I felt John Bowen's spirit tapping me on the shoulder saying, Jimmy, WTF ??

####

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:10 pm
by dawman
I think I 'll try to make it out of the woods with that bear trap named " Solaris " pinching my shin.