## I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Device/Module Wishlist

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=26769

#### I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:11 pm
by Mike Goodwin
Ok so it will never happen but dam that would be handy.

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:04 am
by Mike Goodwin

> stardust wrote:I think you can:
> send your aux to ASIO source and dest.
> Connect a (slim) VST host to the ASIO.
> route in the VST host the VST effects to ins and outs.
> But you have to live with the latency and the saving of presets.
> Total recall is in PT

Yes I think that would work. I was thinking of using some type of "rack" device that was a stand alone program. Routing to and back into scope via asio. Just like you said delay would be an annoying. All I want to do is use a different buss compressor in the 2448 :/ I have been working with Dcomp but it would be nice to use other ones. Unfortinuatly I just can't afford to buy softare for scope at the moment.

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:00 am
by voidar
The External Effects device would be ideal for this. Although it won't solve the latency issue. It's usually a set latency from 64, 128, 256 etc + additional plug-in latency. Use the free SD800 to delay everything else.

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:56 am
by Mike Goodwin

> voidar wrote:The External Effects device would be ideal for this. Although it won't solve the latency issue. It's usually a set latency from 64, 128, 256 etc + additional plug-in latency. Use the free SD800 to delay everything else.

This looks like the best way for me but I just can't get it to work the way I think it should. This is my situation. I sequence in Live and rout all my audio channels straight into the 2448 via ASIO. What I am trying to do is figure out a way to use VST's in the buss inserts. It seems to me that I should be able to use an External Master FX device in the insert to send the audio to an ASIO input back into an audio channel in Live for VST processing and then right back to the buss with no issues as long as I do not create a feedback loop. The thing that stumps me is in the External Master Effect dev the input fields lead to destinations and the outputs lead to my inputs. Is there some type of reverse logic that I am not getting here?

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:40 pm
by voidar
I see what I mean.
Perhaps send buss output to a ASIO dest. Choose this destination as its input?
Don't have time to experiment with this right now.

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:04 pm
by dawman
Mikey G.....
There is a way to use any VST FX in an AUX or BUS if you don't mind about 6 or 7 msec.'s of latency. Scientifically speaking, that's about how long a drummers ride cymbal takes to reach your ear.
You would need to try a free demo for yourself, and see if it's acceptable.
I use Softube's Guitar Feedback VST in an AUX so I can send synths or whatever I want.
I also can use the ASIO sends to go directly to the VST effect prior to the mixer, but I'm an AUX kind of guy.
I love the sound of Guitar feedback on a nice slow attack SAW Osc. pad in Solaris. Right when the envelopes release times wear off the feecback bleeds in.
Why should Guitarists have all of the fun?
My overdriven, heavily tubed Wurlitzer 200A takes Blues and R & B to a whole new level.
Feedback on a chord is much more exciting than those same old " Santana " single note leads.
The 2 ASIO modules below are named the same. The larger one represents the mixer, and the smaller one represents the ASIO 2 Destination module. The highlighted cables are routed back into the mixer.
This allows me to use AUX 2 of SpaceF's mixer as the place I can send individual amounts from each channel of the mixer to the second AUX, where the Feedback VST effect resides.
http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=31

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:34 pm
by Mike Goodwin
That is a very helpful post XITE. Thank you for your time!
I was looking into bidule earlier today wile trying to figure out the best way for me to use an alternative mixer to Live mixer. I am looking into all kinds of possibilities and bidule and Max MSP kept coming up. Max is something that I do not want to get into unless I have to due to the complex nature of it. I am more into making music at this point in my life than building software toys. I will leave that to people that are better at it than me.
Looking at that picture I can make sense of it but it is a little abstract. I understand that bidule is seeing both the asio24 bit source and is sending the 4 channels into the mixer just as shown in the scope environment. I assume that your effect has it's own ASIO in's and outs and operates as it's own host. I would be doing the exactly same thing except it would most likely be best for me if I just used my VST's in bidule. How does bidule know what is going on in scope? Or do you have to tell it some how? It seems so abstract, like how on earth could bidule know what scope is doing? In this type of setup I could use bidule as my custom sends for the 2448. It just might be the answer.
All this being said I have to ask just to be totally clear, can you not do this with the Master Effects Send dev? Sending back into Live? I do not know why but I find that device very confusing.
I am thinking that I will have to download bidule and start playing around with it.

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:17 pm
by Tau
Mike,
it's quite easy to do what Jimmy is showing with Live instead of Bidule... Live will show all ASIO inputs and outputs, and you can set up a track or an aux with the VST you desire, decide on the input and ouput ports for that track, and then route the AUX sends/returns to those ports. Sorry I can't post any pics right now. Or do you mean using Bidule alongside Live just as a VST fx host?
But I do have the same problem you're having with the External Effect / Master Effect device: the input dropdown menu shows the ASIO destinations, and the output is showing the ASIO sources... I do remember it wasn't always like that, as I have created external effect devices for some of my outboard, and it worked properly (via Z-Link, though) - just can't seem to be able to do it anymore
T

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:53 pm
by dawman
The pic seems to have misled you since it was from a DAW that the usual plugs aren't located.
I can better explain it when I get back to the gig and do a jpeg using it.
Where the highlighted cables are you would insert your effect's module using it's I/O's.
I tried to do a redraw in Paint but it was too lame.

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:31 am
by Mike Goodwin
Well this is a little embarrassing but it turns out that Live's AUX returns do have the ability to send to external devices. I do not know what the heck I was looking at when I figured out that they didn't Another thing I figured out that I should have seen two days ago is that live has something called an "external effect" that allows you to rout audio in and out from live on any channel that you want with latency compensation. I have no idea why I did not think of it sooner. I think it can be attributed to lack of sleep and a cold but sheze I wish I and thought of it sooner.
I just wanted to say thanks for everybody's help here yet again. This forum kicks ass. As I have said before it is one of the biggest assets that the scope platform has.
Thanks folks

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:59 am
by dawman
I learn by making mistakes and publicly embarrassing myself at the Z all of the time.
I'm sure I will be making more, chalk it up as learning.
Simply by speaking out, the minds of a few are quite helpful.
This is great in the virtual world to have so much help.
Nice to know I don't have to walk by members here in the real world and see them snicker thinking....Boy, he sure has a long way to go....
Here, silence is our enemy.
Strength & Honor.

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:13 am
by Tau
The Live External effect and external instrument plug-ins are great to insert outboard into Live's audio engine and workflow, but the question here was the opposite: how to insert VSTs in Scope's mixer.
Can anyone shed some light of the issue that arose with Scope's External effects / master effects devices? Why is it that ASIO Destinations show in Inputs, and ASIO Sources in Outputs?

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:26 am
by sonolive
hi tau,

> Can anyone shed some light of the issue that arose with Scope's External effects / master effects devices? Why is it that ASIO Destinations show in Inputs, and ASIO Sources in Outputs?

there is no issue ... but you must understand :
"Inputs" as the inputs of your external plug in (FX) ... it shows destinations so that you can plug the IN of the external stuff (SEND)
"outputs" as the outputs of your external plugin (FX) ... it shows the sources so that you can get back the OUT of your external stuff (RETURN)
you must see this module as an external effect ... and then it is understandable ...
anyway a very usefull device, as it can be "inserted", renamed, and even store as a device !!! absolute lovely device ...
cheerz
olive

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:13 am
by Tau
Ah! OK, I'll give it another go, then... I did have it working, and saved as different devices to use with my TC and other outboard... I guess it was a long time ago
Thanks Olive!

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:14 pm
by voidar
Yes, I guess it would be easier to think of "input" as "send" and "output" as "return" when you are Scope-centric.

#### Re: I wish I could use vst's in the scope mixers!

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:33 pm
by Mike Goodwin

> voidar wrote:Yes, I guess it would be easier to think of "input" as "send" and "output" as "return" when you are Scope-centric.

I will try that device again if need be as it may at some point be an easier way to go.
Thanks for the understanding folks. Scope is pretty vast and in a land far far away