## a device like Phasetone

Device/Module Wishlist

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=17288

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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:22 am
by cannonball
hi
maybe someone can give a look to this
http://www.tritonedigital.com
phasetone
could be cool have this tool for mastering
or in some stereo channel in our scope enviroment
colortone is cool too but use a sort of convolution i think some guru can give a more detiled opinion

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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:38 am
by astroman
reminds me on the Kawai Eq that I have laying in a corner(*) - it could do wonders to a sampled piano, but completely messes phase relations...
(*) retired cause the piano is broken
what I don't understand is that one (is supposed to) have to have a ton of I-dunno-what in every channel and even on the master pair (today).
it finally adds to white noise anyway...
(no offence - just thinking)
cheers, Tom

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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:53 am
by cannonball
hi
have yot tried the plugin?
is free and after you have tried tyou will tell me what you think about it
seem give some character and to a sound is a good tool and of course is just an idea
i haven't seen a device like this
q factor /frequency /volume
and delay for left right like a the
Red muze phase tool

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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:15 am
by djmicron
with scope we already have the tools to make the same thing.
Maybe some sdk user will make it as an insert device

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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:31 am
by cannonball
ciao
which one?

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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:39 am
by astroman
I edited my post above to avoid the 'you' ambiguity - my comment was inspired by the content of the site, not some personal preferences

> On 2005-11-12 06:53, cannonball wrote:
> ... i haven't seen a device like this...

as written above - I have
a real sh*tty piece of hardware could do exactly that (according to their description).
it's what people do when miking guitar/bass amps
or when they insert some piece of 'magic' vintage gear into the signal path
it's so obvious, that it's truely boring
in SFP you can easily setup something like this yourself, but...
the majority of (average) sequencer users isn't even able to setup a phase coherent recording chain
most eq and compress all and everything in advance (...to not miss a thing ?), instead of applying what's needed at the proper position
and now these folks are inspired (by that site and probably others as well) to fiddle with frequency filtered phase shifts - for the sake of being pro and the latest and greatest...
we have it, so we must use it...
I really don't understand how they made all those BlueNote and Motown records, wtf did they use ???
cheers, Tom

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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:23 pm
by Grok

> On 2005-11-12 07:39, astroman wrote:
> (...)
> the majority of (average) sequencer users isn't even able to setup a phase coherent recording chain (...)

...A majority of pro users isn't, too...
...This is the result of multi miced recording techniques.

> (...)I really don't understand how they made all those BlueNote and Motown records, wtf did they use ???
> cheers, Tom

...This question could be asked, for example, to Bob Olhsson. He's on the Samplitude's forums, a very likeable, highly knowledgeable guy.
BTW, Tritone Digital makes good & not expensive products. HydraTone EQ recommended...
PhaseTone is for mixing, not for mastering.
Regards,
Grok

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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:01 pm
by marcuspocus
what's with multi-miced technique?
For example when i record a bass track, i put 2 mics, 1 sm57 pointing directly at the center of the speaker cone, and one rode NT1000 about 12inches further, being off-axis of about 20°
With this technique i get the best sounding bass track i ever heard.
Is there a problem with this technique?

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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:07 am
by astroman
no, you've just spared that plugin
it does effectively the same as your mics, so it's nothing new at all.
if you wanted to extend the idea you could duplicate each mixer channel and introduce arbitrary micro delays (possibly spiced with some filters) to really mess things up.
you'll end with tweaking, but not with a track - let alone you'd constantly be bothered that you might have missed 'the ultimate' sweet spot...
that's why I'd call the plugin nonsense - in SFP one can easily set this up with stock devices, should there ever be a reason to have it
cheers, Tom

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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:24 pm
by marcuspocus
Well that doesn't really explain why this technique would be bad or not And what the flaw!
But, thanks anyway mister astroman

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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:53 pm
by astroman
oops, my answer above is somewhat over the top.
I forgot about that it's a free plug and they don't try to make money from selling the obvious
the technique is just a technique, the result depends on what you make of it, just as with miking a guitar amp.
cheers, Tom

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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:01 am
by cannonball
hi
i have the tritone plugs for pc and they
are easy to use and sounds so good
i'm waitin the sse optmization
and the new Colortone free is a great plugin.
Phasetone can be used in a master mix too if you want to know you can read in the tritone forum how is possible
Astroman i would like to know how can i emulate the Phasetone plugin with the current tools in scope
Thanks in advance

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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:14 pm
by astroman
as written above:
split a channel, apply sample delay, add an eq curve if necessary.
you know that a phase shift is a movement of the waveform along the time axis and that there's a relation between the amount of time displacement and frequency affected.
You can either thin out or boost by inverting the phase of the overlay.
I've used this on a cheapo bass once by sending each pickup on it's own channel and introduce a micro delay. By modifying the delay I could significantly 'add body' to the lower E string, which used to sound a bit hollow before.
anyway, I hope to have clarified that I'm NOT dissing the quality or general usefulness of this plugin.
I'd prefer to focus on the original source (which doesn't exclude stacked sounds...), but anyone is free to apply his tools as he likes
cheers, tom

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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:40 am
by paulrmartin

> On 2005-12-08 07:01, cannonball wrote:
> hi
> i have the tritone plugs for pc and they
> are easy to use and sounds so good

Hmm. Logic 5.5.1 gives me a Kernel32 error and shuts down. I can't use these plugins waah