## Audio to Midi

Device/Module Wishlist

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=19522

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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:21 am
by tgstgs
i would like to have a audio to midi drum trigger device;
just note ON/OFF and velocity; no filters scope has a lot of;
assignable to one note with a control for the velocity sensitive;
for Example:
audioIn (from a drumMic) - veloControl full = max sensitive + max delay / veloControl sero = no sensitive (all note set to 100) + min delay (for realtimeplaing) - midiOut;
i know there are a lot of programs and vstis to do this but all have a lot of delay not realy usable for live;
i think a device in scope could do it in realy realtime;
thanks and good vibes from vienna

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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:06 am
by katano
me too!

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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:44 am
by alfonso
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... f=15&0
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... f=15&0
Not exactly the same you said, but they make almost the same thing....one is Mod2, the other is M3. Check them, they are interesting anyway.

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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:40 am
by wolf
.. or you use flexor in combination with my MidiToolBox.
Or use Audio2Control and the MidiTransformer from the MidiToolBox, if you don't want to go modular.

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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:36 am
by tgstgs
the modular patch is verry interesting but im afraid it doesnt do what i want;
the flexor i dont have
the miditoolbox i dont have
i dont want to give a vote for a program but to make it clear what im looking for check this one http://www.koen.smartelectronix.com/KTDrumTrigger/
its a nice toy;
if you give the mic as close as possible to the drum and using one instance of ktdrumtrigger per drum you get good results on slow beats;
but 3 ms for input + 3 ms for output + veloscantime + the 'loop' from audiotrack over ktdrumtrigger to miditrack . . . .
so i thought a scope device could do it much faster to rec fast beats and fill ins;
greetings

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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:31 am
by astroman
well, actually this should be fairly 'easy' to achieve, as there's no pitch detection needed.
You don't need a couple of full wavecycles (for pitch detection), but you can do the job on a single transient.
imho the only reason that the device doesn't exist yet is that it's highly specialized.
each mic can be assigned to a (fixed) midi note event and the loudness of the signal is mapped to velocity
cheers, Tom

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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:18 pm
by wolf

> You don't need a couple of full wavecycles (for pitch detection), but you can do the job on a single transient.

the small drawback is, that it's not transients (speed/time) the circuit has to react to but the level (peak). You need to "follow" the waveform, if you don't want to have note on triggered 147 times in 5.76 milliseconds

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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:15 pm
by astroman
ouch yes
I was 'idealising' a bit too far, having a single sine in mind to 'visualize' the basic difference.
Thanks for pointing out that it's the envelope of the noise... but is it trackable with the desired resolution/response ?
cheers, Tom

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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:40 pm
by tgstgs
dont know exactly what youre talking but it sounds like it is makable;
so there is hope for me;
'highly specialized' ??
never had a Bd with perfect timing wonderfull dynamic and s*it sound you want to replace?
or a drummachine to humanice;
or a drummer who wants to play on his 1 euro drumset wants you to make it sound like 10000 euro?
or you have a beat in mind, no drum available realy want to start making dots in a editor? better drum on the desk and record; saving time for inspiration;
i think a device like this could be very helpfull to a lot of scopers
thanks for replies and good vibes from vienna

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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:32 am
by astroman

> On 2006-07-23 22:40, tgstgs wrote:
> ...'highly specialized' ??

well, I just assumed that drummers playing a 'live kit' aren't the most common group of SFP users.
Aren't there lots of trigger mics with midi converters capable do this job - or do those lack dynamics (or whatever a non-drummer doesn't think of...) ?
possibly your idea triggered something
cheers, Tom

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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:13 am
by tgstgs
im no drummer too, i just record them;
and even when you have a good drumset in studio they want to take their own one becourse they 'feel' better; and you wont belive on whitch ones they play; a shoebox sounds better; even with scopes excelent filters its a hard job to make them sound 'good';
and drum is the basis of nearly all music
my story is the need of a new drumset;
my first thinking was v-drum or e-drum 2000 E + ; and discriebed problem on top stays;
the second one was the acoustic drumtrigger 50 E + each; but i found none for cymbals or hihat and the available are very specialiced on drum you cant adapt them to a percussion for example;
so i found on net the SW triggers most free; tried them and they work great with a few restrictions whitch i think can be solved with a scope device;
on SW drumtrigger i get 2-4 flies with one beat you know they can play on any drum they want triggering my samplelibrary;
and i can use it for perc. too; even when i have a recorded drum on a track i can replace it with a few mouseclicks
thats why i write the wish;
thanks again for your reply;
you bring hope to vienna

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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:27 am
by Shroomz~>
Hi, the Alesis D4 & D5 are excellent tools for this job. 500+ very decent accoustic stereo samples which an be triggerred via about 10 or 12 trigger ins, with the capability to send out midi to trigger external samples (on your sampler or DAW for example) They are both 1u rack format.
The D4 goes for 100-150 euro on Ebay these days & it's excellent value for that sort of money. There are of course very cheap alternatives in terms of hardware trigger to midi devices available regularly on Ebay.

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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:04 am
by tgstgs
alesis d4 is a sound modul;
i forgot it in my last reply that you had to buy a soundmodul for acoustic trigger too;
so its 50E+ each trigger plus 100E + for soundmodul and i dont need sounds;
the pure acoustic to midi trigger without sounds is about 230E new (roland) with only 6 ins
dont know d4 exactly but in this price range sound moduls normaly have a stereo out
no single outs another point to dont use sound moduls for me
but thanks for your input and good vibes from vienna to liberty cap where is ?
i now go to bath see (read) you all tomorrow
have a nice day

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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:20 am
by Shroomz~>
Hi, I think a 2nd hand D4 would possibly be the best 'all in 1' solution, as it does everything you're looking for + more.
I dug out the manual & here's the D4's key features with the best bits in bold :-
• Over 500 Sounds. Sounds include: 99 kicks, 99 snares, 55 cymbals, 92 toms, 76 percussion sounds, and 80 effects.
• 48 kHz Sample Rate and 20 Hz-20 kHz Bandwidth. The D4's high sample rate and full bandwidth insure maximum audio clarity from each sound.
• 12 acoustic trigger inputs. Drummers can trigger D4 sounds with conventional drum pads as well as MIDI pads. Studios can trigger D4 sounds from existing taped drum tracks to replace taped sounds with the D4’s high quality drum sounds. Older drum machines with individual outputs can be revitalized by using them to trigger the D4 sounds instead of triggering the drum machine’s internal sounds.
• Full MIDI implementation. The D4’s master volume responds to MIDI controller 7, allowing for smooth fades and easy changes in overall dynamics, as well as to other important MIDI controllers including pitch bend. Program change commands can call up different Drum Sets.
• Simultaneous MIDI/trigger operation. Notes can be triggered by MIDI and/or triggers simultaneously.
• Trigger to MIDI conversion. Triggers received by the D4 are converted into MIDI
note data that appears at the MIDI Out/Thru connector.
• Single rack space size. The D4 fits conveniently into a single rack space.
• 21 programmable drum kits. Assign different drums to different MIDI notes (or
triggers) to create a kit, and recall individual kits with Program Change
commands. A footswitch, when pressed, can increment from one drum kit to the
next.
• Multiple outputs. The D4 offers four outputs, which are arranged as two stereo
pairs. Any sound can be sent to either stereo pair (and panned to any of seven
positions in the stereo field). However, these can also serve as individual outputs
if you pan a single sound hard left or hard right so that it appears over only one
output. One possible application is to use one stereo pair for a mix of drum
sounds, and the other stereo pair as two individual outputs for specific drum
sounds that may need separate processing.
As you can see it does have individual out, although only 4.

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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:50 pm
by wolf
get it here

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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:49 am
by tgstgs
to Shroomz
thank you for investing time to dig it out;
your right that sound very good 12 ins is enough for basic set 1 Bd 2 sd 3 hih 3 tom 2 for a cymb. = 11
left 1 for a cowbell;
that would make it, even if i would like to have another cymb(hope thats correct vocable) german = Becken for basic set
but the 4 outs makes me ahhrrr . . .
im old man learn ages ago to pickup the drumset with at least one mic for one drum to have a drum per track for post production;
so i would need 3 d4 s to make this and then i have only a basic set;
d4 is a good way but not mine thanks;
to wolf
great greater you are the greatest creator;
im in office now cant wait to check it this evening in studio;
will reply on other (devices) topic for result;
good vibes to you all and very special thanks to wolf

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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:36 am
by Shroomz~>
don't discount the D4 if you see one going cheap, as you can have 12 mics triggering 12 external sounds or samples on your daw, sampler or whatever via midi, while also 'adding' up to four sounds from the D4's internal kits. A second layered kick & snare for example or another percussive instrument or 2 being layered over your 12 mic to midi drum tracks.
I know you said it wasn't for you, so it probably isn't if you said that, but I thought I'd explain that it can in actual fact do exactly what you're after in a robust & portable little 1u hardware rack unit without eating up 12 audio inputs to your DAW.
You wouldn't even need good mics to work in such a way, although you'd probably have proper drum mics on a decent kit anyway.