## Flexor II Module Expectations

Device/Module Wishlist

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=19185

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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:58 am
by dawman
Dear ReD_MuZe,
How about a small teaser of
information that we can expect to see in Flexor II. Sorry about busting your balls, it is in my nature.
If U R A Modular Complexor, U Cannot Live
Without Flexor!!!!!!!!

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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:30 pm
by Lima
I'm also really interested in having futher information about it!!!

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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:13 pm
by next to nothing
i think we should consider it a bonus if it ever is released!
no bad intentions with that remark, its just that red is doing good in other areas at the moment as far as i know, so he is kinda busy

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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:36 pm
by HUROLURA
Is there anybody out there ???

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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:57 pm
by dawman
We will hear from Adern after while. He is in protection mode right now. Pray 4 his safety.

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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:24 pm
by HUROLURA
I pray...

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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:23 am
by ReD_MuZe
flexor2 module list will be available shortly. in the mean while, if you have things you want for the system, this is the place to ask.
peace!

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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:26 am
by steffensen
selfoscillating filter alternatives? or something like that, would be nice to play with.

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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:23 am
by Shroomz~>
True stereo versions of every module (well the ones which would be worthwhile in a stereo synth or fx architecture anyway). I think the system would be improved & probably streamlined if modules are available in stereo format as well as mono where relevant.
I'm a bit dissapointed that so many of the stock CW modules don't have text entries for all of their parameters. There's absolutely loads of parameters on lots of the modules in there which need controlled over midi to get any idea of what value the pots are currently at. If every single parameter had a text entry or even just a central display module (virtual LCD) which gives a real-time read out of parameter values as you tweek them, then we would have a much deeper (more accurate) level of control when building & tweeking patches.
Another point worth a mention is pot/knob size for parameters such as course tuning of an OSC. It would be nice to see some larger controls for such params as it would give a nicer feel & greater degree of tuning accuracy without resorting to midi control.
That's all for now, but I might add more as it comes to me

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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:01 am
by decimator
I'am in lack of bipolarity ... would like pitch bipolar modifiers and mixers + something like that : http://www.ear-group.net/model_14.html quite a smart multi-purpose module, also model 17
VC mixers like Doepfer A-135
Something like the A -143-1.
A Track & Hold
" Multiple " module a little like the 1x8 switch but without the switch option and one model with bipolar outputs, one with sweeping option ( well it's a little the A-152 )
Merging the diode, half inverter and such into one " multimaxiverter " module with or without the switch option ( multiple outs at once )
Well merging old CWA into compact multi-uses modules in the spirit of hardware like dual ringmod and such to gain GUI space.
Squishing as most as possible modules like Val Freeze, GUI space again
Fade mod for granular sequencer
Gfx on / off for Hyper note sequencer ( despite there's not too much space left )
Sample delay mod.
On top of my head for now ...

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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:39 pm
by Shroomz~>

> On 2006-09-01 11:01, decimator wrote:
> Well merging old CWA into compact multi-uses modules in the spirit of hardware like dual ringmod and such to gain GUI space.

Yeh!! I've been thinking for while now, why not have like Quad LFOs, ADSRs etc.

> Sample delay mod.

This idea and any similarly unusual ones (more weird modulation possibilities which are abundant) would b killer additions.

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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:54 pm
by dawman
I am just a performer who wishes his knowledge would increase through more study and help from the ModGodz. I can say this, I know what is fat and love to watch people jerk their heads around when the beast strikes. I don't know what to ask 4, but I will make sure that the SPL's are punishing.

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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:29 pm
by Shroomz~>
Another issue I have with the modular is having no multi OSCs which have multiple waveform outs like you find on almost every old & new modular system including Clavia's. Instead, we're stuck with needing seven different modules to build an OSC with seven shapes & seperate outs for each shape. This is poor use of space & missing out on one of the real beauties of modular synthesis.

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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:29 pm
by Shroomz~>
NRPN to CV module.
Some physical modelling OSCs. IE:- Plucked, bowed & hammered string, brass, bell, reed etc. You know, kinda like the prophecy & yamaha VL.

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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:28 pm
by decimator
Yeah, I'am with Shroomz for multi outs for OSC and also LFOs like take MultiLfo A with " all outs " + non - integer ratios and possibility to hardsync
Also a bi-phase and tri-phase ( sine ) LFO with modulation on phase and on non - integer ratios and outputs for 1+2 1+3 2+3 1+2+3 and 1*2 1*3 2*3 1*2*3
j9k made a quite handy 8 X 8 mixer matrix with bipolar knobs but it eats some DSP, I wonder if DSP load could be reduced ... or a 4 X 4, 6 X 6 made.
Ah, also a Freq multiplier mod

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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:05 am
by Lima
I'm with shroomz and the others.
I would add the following:
A buffer
A small oscilloscope
A "scale module" wich quantizes the pitch of the input according to a selected scale (ex CMaj, D pentatonic, chromatic etc...).
A "scale table module" which can be attached to the previous one and where the user can adjust his own scale.
Some smaller info modules like the "multipeak 4-6-8": you have in a single module 4 or 6 or 8 peak meter saving a lot of workspace.
Hmm... I have to think now...

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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:57 am
by ReD_MuZe
Hey Guys, there are alot of suggestions so ill try to be brief as possible:

> selfoscillating filter alternatives

u got it

> True stereo versions of every module

I know that the system has phase problems, and stereo modules would be welcome. unfortunetaly, dsp limits will not allow enough poliphony for the modules, another problem is that with a stereo module you can do much less than with 2 mono ones. im sorry but for now it is off the table

> I'm a bit dissapointed that so many of the stock CW modules don't have text entries for all of their parameters.

well i will be adding a midi desplay for you to see the midi stream of the controller of your choice this will save alot of space. adding texts to the modules will just make them bigger.

> Another point worth a mention is pot/knob size for parameters such as course tuning of an OSC.

there are already two types of knobs. it doesnt matter how big it is if your using circular motion then you get the resolution of your screen (more resolution as far you are from the knob)

> VC mixers like Doepfer A-135

u got it!

> " Multiple " module a little like the 1x8 switch but without the switch option and one model with bipolar outputs, one with sweeping option ( well it's a little the A-152 )

Voltage Controlled Switch?
u got it!

> Something like the A -143-1.....Merging the diode, half inverter and such into one " multimaxiverter " module with or without the switch option ( multiple outs at once )
> Well merging old CWA into compact multi-uses modules in the spirit of hardware like dual ringmod and such to gain GUI space.

in analog you dont need to worry about dsp limitations. however this is digital domain and we could all use as much dsp as possible without leaving any unused modules to ocupy it.
when we will not have dsp limits, then modules of this sort will be very welcome, and even better dynamic modules (you can select how many envelopes you want...)

> A Track & Hold

whats that?

> Squishing as most as possible modules like Val Freeze, GUI space again

we try our best

> Fade mod for granular sequencer

you got it!

> Gfx on / off for Hyper note sequencer ( despite there's not too much space left )

just for the step indicator?

> Sample delay mod.

you have phase mod which is actualy a modulatable delay. the sample delay crackles when modlated

> Another issue I have with the modular is having no multi OSCs which have multiple waveform outs like you find on almost every old & new modular system including Clavia's.

again we have an issue of limited dsp at the moment. clavias system is not as modular as scope, and modularity requires more dsp...
ok this is getting too long. ill post continue in another one...

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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:23 am
by ReD_MuZe

> I'am in lack of bipolarity ... would like pitch bipolar modifiers and mixers + something like that : http://www.ear-group.net/model_14.html quite a smart multi-purpose module, also model 17

everything here is possible with modular3 modules and flexor

> NRPN to CV module.

will have to research that.

> Some physical modelling OSCs. IE:- Plucked, bowed & hammered string, brass, bell, reed etc. You know, kinda like the prophecy & yamaha VL.

pysical modeling is pattented. but comb filters are not you will have several tools for that.

> Also a bi-phase and tri-phase ( sine ) LFO with modulation on phase and on non - integer ratios and outputs for 1+2 1+3 2+3 1+2+3 and 1*2 1*3 2*3 1*2*3

im not 100% sure what you mean.

> j9k made a quite handy 8 X 8 mixer matrix with bipolar knobs but it eats some DSP, I wonder if DSP load could be reduced ... or a 4 X 4, 6 X 6 made.

you got it!

> Ah, also a Freq multiplier mod

whats that?

> A buffer

thats a delay

> A small oscilloscope

sorry its impossible for me atm.

> A "scale module" wich quantizes the pitch of the input according to a selected scale

ill have to research on that a bit

> Some smaller info modules like the "multipeak 4-6-8": you have in a single module 4 or 6 or 8 peak meter saving a lot of workspace.

you got it!
guys keep em coming! there were some very good suggestions here!

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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:28 am
by ReD_MuZe
I understand the will for combined modules.
it saves up space, and is easier to control...
the problem is, i cannot make a multimode oscilator without taking more DSP. and if your not using all of the shapes it would be a waste.
flexor has a problem that each module has to fit 1 dsp.
so it is actualy "waisting" more unused dsp anhow.
so for the time being combined modules are off the table.
sorry
i can however say, that flexor2's new moules will offer yet another whole new range of sound possibilities. brace yourself!

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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:25 am
by MCCY
New sampler-modules would be great, if they use fewer DSPs the modular-sample-modules use way too much DSP. The first simple sampleplayer was so fantastic light on DSP... something like this for modular would open the possibilities to build new customized samplers.
... I'm not too optimistic with that... should be very difficult somehow to build such a module...
hm... I just have an idea... oh, maybe I can do something too ;o)...
Martin

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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:25 am
by HUROLURA
What I would like to get is a phase distortion oscillator in the spirit of the CASIO CZ series 80s synthesizer.
http://www.cosmosynthesizer.de/
This would be a PWM for oscillators running also non rectangular waveforms:
- from sawtooth to inverted sawtooth on a triangle waveform
- from smoothed sawtooth to inverted smoothed sawtooth for sine waveform
- I let you imagine what could be achieved with other waveform ...
Cheerzzz

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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:42 am
by Shroomz~>
Red, maybe would it be possible to have just one simple OSC & one LFO with multiple shape outs like a multi-square with 3 square shapes:- square, sub1 & sub2. I know it's possible to do this aleady using multiple modules, but having those 3 octaves of square wave spewing out of one module would be killer
I know you said combined modules are off the table, but a couple of true stereo filters would be a very welcome addition.
About the text entries. I suppose the main parameters are enough. I just find it annoying that the stock CW OSCs for example, don't allow accurate setting of say, fine tune values from the module itself.

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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:02 am
by Shroomz~>
I take it that OSCs with integrated additive synthesis aren't possible?

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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:28 am
by Shroomz~>

> On 2006-09-02 04:23, ReD_MuZe wrote:

> > j9k made a quite handy 8 X 8 mixer matrix with bipolar knobs but it eats some DSP, I wonder if DSP load could be reduced ... or a 4 X 4, 6 X 6 made.

> you got it!

how about:-
2x4, 2x6, 2x8, 2x16
3x4, 3x6, 3x8, 3x16
4x4, 4x6, 4x8, 4x16 versions etc? Too much?

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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:28 am
by decimator
Reply in " as it comes " mode
I think it would be an overkill of matrix ... 4 X 4 and 8 X 8 should cover most needs : you can plug 2 ins and have 8 possible mix in a 8 X 8 matrix.
For additive synthesis, I think you could make a one block 8 sine osc partial with modulation on each partial ratio : gain of space + the modulation on partial that would make it more interesting.
I loaded 8 individually ( what a drag ! ) and it doesn't eat much DSP at all.
Otherwise :
Sorry for the Gfx button, I missed some : well everywhere where there's a possible pattern sweeping ( hyper controller / displacer / hyper note seq / hyper gate )
The sample delay mod : yes it crackles BUT it depends at what speed it's swept and in certain condition it's unheard ... I think the benefits far outweight the negative so please ( or should I do the Shrek 2 cat ? )
The Track & Hold : well if it's a LFO, during one stage it goes through then on next it's sample and hold till next stage where it goes through again ... of course with a pulse : no interest !
For the bi-phase or tri-phase LFO it's in fact the already existing bi-phase with more controls, it crackles when hand modulated as well but depending on conditions it's unnoticeable.
The Freq multiply mod is just the Freq multiply module with mod ( not vital but )
As for the CV / audio mixer thanks for doing it ! I hope it comes in 4 and 8 inputs flavors ! I was thinking further : it could have individual outputs as well of the mix output like a LFO ( In 1 ) modulated by an amount of another LFO then output indivually ( Out 1 )
I understand that multipurpose module are not DSP friendly however when you want to change the wiring, you have to rename the patch and start new presets in a multipurpose you have more room, well maybe for next card ...
Comb was mentioned so I wonder if you have plans to make a kind of Phil concept with multicomb down to sample with feedback ( like Absynth ) and big messing with delays like you did at Orbitone or like the Ohmforce crew did with their early effects ?
Anyway thanks for all that has been done / granted !
Seems promising ...

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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:29 pm
by Shroomz~>
A flux-capacitor

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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:01 pm
by ReD_MuZe

> New sampler-modules would be great

cant promise anything but im working on it...

> What I would like to get is a phase distortion oscillator in the spirit of the CASIO CZ series 80s synthesizer.

will do some research

> I take it that OSCs with integrated additive synthesis aren't possible?

you take wrong
... you got it!
(actualy it SAVES dsp in this case!)

> how about:-
> 2x4, 2x6, 2x8, 2x16
> 3x4, 3x6, 3x8, 3x16
> 4x4, 4x6, 4x8, 4x16 versions etc? Too much?

*cought*yes*cough*

> Sorry for the Gfx button, I missed some : well everywhere where there's a possible pattern sweeping ( hyper controller / displacer / hyper note seq / hyper gate )

as of flexor1.5 wherever there is controllable gfx and animation you can hide it.

> The sample delay mod : yes it crackles BUT it depends at what speed it's swept and in certain condition it's unheard ... I think the benefits far outweight the negative so please ( or should I do the Shrek 2 cat ? )

this is only true for the dsp delays (which are max 41 ms. the pc delays crackle like hell...

> The Track & Hold : well if it's a LFO, during one stage it goes through then on next it's sample and hold till next stage where it goes through again ... of course with a pulse : no interest !

so if its just an LFO with a SnH, its just more module combining....

> For the bi-phase or tri-phase LFO it's in fact the already existing bi-phase with more controls, it crackles when hand modulated as well but depending on conditions it's unnoticeable.

you can use NBL phase mod with sine shapers.

> The Freq multiply mod is just the Freq multiply module with mod ( not vital but )

frequency multiplication is basicaly transposition. the pitch modulation modules are just that. (check pitch modulation C)_

> Comb was mentioned so I wonder if you have plans to make a kind of Phil concept with multicomb down to sample with feedback ( like Absynth ) and big messing with delays like you did at Orbitone or like the Ohmforce crew did with their early effects ?

im not 100% sure what you mean, but flexor2 will have several comb filters. and much more new filters of new type.

> A flux-capacitor

well i built one but now im stuck on a loop where i go back to the day befor i built it and have to start over, and over.... help!

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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:37 am
by decimator
Well for the sample delay if you modulate fast, it will crackle like hell but not on a small range of samples and low speed modulation ( in the Hz or so range ) : say if you mix 1 : 1 a sample delay inverted waveform ( non sine ) with itself you start with nothing ( total cancellation ) at 0 then when you rise slowly you have a new waveform forming.
Works as well with mixing a non inverted waveform, also useful in FM for new timbres and certainly other uses.

> Comb was mentioned so I wonder if you have plans to make a kind of Phil concept with multicomb down to sample with feedback ( like Absynth ) and big messing with delays like you did at Orbitone or like the Ohmforce crew did with their early effects ?

I meant a device like Phil or Grainmiller with many things that can be done with delays and more a little like Warp 69 CD -100 or Ohmforce early FX with the Adern Touch.
Thinking again of the Absynth FX unit, without it Absynth is not that exciting
I hope there are some multi-stage envelope of some sort scheduled for Flexor 2 ?
HUROLURA, there are Cosmo oscillators in Vaz Modular though I have no idea how much they are faithful to the original but " knowing " the developper I guess they are relatively close.

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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:22 am
by Ben Walker

> On 2006-09-02 15:29, Shroomz wrote:
> A flux-capacitor

Yes, yes, yes, please can we have a flux capacitor! We'd need at least a one point twenty-one jigowatts one!

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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:49 am
by Shroomz~>
With such a device you could send your Flexor2 modular madness back in time to the days of Modular I, although there might be some lag
A modular version of 'kick me' would ROCK !!

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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:21 am
by hifiboom
A flux-capacitor really is a must.
You could load JBs Quantum-Wave and then the flux-capacitor as insert, and DSP Load jumps back to the level before loading the synth.
because the synth runs in future...

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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:32 pm
by Leper
Flexor's NBL Saw Gate / Sync oscillators with added pitch correction in higher registers (remember the old pitchmodifier hack to get the pitches to sound right).
I have a few other module ideas that I'll send you modular patch examples for later, red.

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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:03 pm
by roy thinnes
I would like to see a randomizer option for the hyper note-, control- and gate sequencer modules (within a specified range).
A killer module would be a poly gate seq with mmmh...8 or so outs, for drum pattern programming (maybe a dsp killer too, I know)

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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:23 am
by roy thinnes
Granular displacer: tempo sync please

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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:25 am
by alfonso

> On 2006-09-14 01:23, roy thinnes wrote:
> Granular displacer: tempo sync please

The Ramp input is that exactly, the tightest sync available.

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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:45 am
by roy thinnes
sorry, I meant: adjusting delaytimes like in the tempo-delay module (click&drag)

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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:31 am
by at0m
Roy, do you mean BPM of the ramp module? Cos that can easily be MIDI controlled... A crossfade between an upper and lower limit BPM of 2 MIDI Clock modules, then fed to Ramp's freq. input and MIDI resolution can be more precise. For ultimate tighness, a ramp can be recorded then time-stretched (automatically?) inside the sequencer as the BPM changes there.
Or did I not understand your request very well?

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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:09 am
by roy thinnes
mmmh, I thought of something like that
(just for quick editing the delaytime because text entries don't work and editing graphically isn't exact enough)

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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:06 pm
by scary808

> On 2006-09-14 12:09, roy thinnes wrote:
> mmmh, I thought of something like that
> (just for quick editing the delaytime because text entries don't work and editing graphically isn't exact enough)

Great idea! It would have to be scalable to a very high resolution though(up to 1/256 notes) to be effective.

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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:50 pm
by at0m
Ah, now I get it Great idea IMO!

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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:48 pm
by dawman
I have been using SFP4Live performance for 16 months. This is the most awesome platform around. Symbollic Sound has a great forum and Carla usually responds to customers wishes eventually, but they do not have DP, or SDK for it's members. But hey John Paul Jones from Led Zeppilin is a member!
All I know is that I have added my favorite synths, FX, and custom made devices from members here at the Z, and I am still growing and buying things. I still wish someone could make a simple 8 track MIDI sequencer 4 me though. But anyone that says Scope is a dying platform should come hear my DAW's.
MYCCRANO,SHROOMZ,DJMICRON,DAS,ADERN,ZARG,ALFONSO,at0m,WOLF,SPACEF,CREAMWARE,and many others are constantly bringing us great stuff. SFP will never die as long as we support ourselves, which brings me up to another topic of discussion. I hope that ReD_MuZe charges a high price like BX did. When 3rd party guys give this stuff away 4 peanuts, there is no financial gain to speak of, 4 we are small in numbers. So when ReD_MuZe asks for a few hundred bucks, as he has more overhead, and expenses now, that nobody starts whining about the price. Unless of course you can do this work yourself. I suggest that a 300 USD asking price would cover our brotha's efforts, and an upgrade price of 175 to 200 USD should suffice. That will hopefully cover the costs, if not I will pay whatever is nescessary, as I firmly believe the future of SFP is in our hands, not Creamware's.
Now That I Kissed Some Serious Adern Ass, I Hope ReD_MuZe Will Give Me A Discount,

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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:27 am
by hifiboom
Hey Jimmy,
what about you pay 500 and I get one for free, because I don`t have thousands of $$$$.
But its good that you like supporting the existing developers...

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Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:49 pm
by dawman
I will consider your suggestion when I recieve my annual ASCAP/BMI royalty check. It doesn't come from the original recording contract, but from the sounds of the seventies CD's which were numerous and surprisingly substantial at first. Now they have tapered down to about 2 to 400 dollars annually since the mid nineties. Right when the internet became a reality forcing RIAA to lobby for protection legislation.
Since you have the balls to be direct and truthful while maintaining your dignity, it reminds me of myself when I was adrift in a world of shit. So this I will do 4 you.
I have a reputation here as a rambling numskull who is handicapped by immaturity, I tend to agree. But everytime I purchase a 3rd party device, I always pay them what I think it is worth, instead of the ridicuously cheap asking price. I am far from wealthy, but I have made twice as much money playing and producing locally, than I do as a sideman working for Anne Murray, Englebert Humperdinck, Steppenwolf, Tim McGraw and Head East just to name a few. Scope has wired my head to my ass in the last 16 months, and I am always thinking I should do something as a show of my appreciation. Since quality of sound has been my focus, and finance my second, This has seemed to be the key. And only good Karma can come from it.
So It Shall Be Written, So It Shall Be Done.

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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:24 am
by hifiboom
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:22 am
by gainman

> On 2006-09-01 08:23, ReD_MuZe wrote:
> flexor2 module list will be available shortly. in the mean while, if you have things you want for the system, this is the place to ask.

I have a few ideas in this respect, but first I think I should advise you that:
1) I have rather limited experience working with Modular
2) I don't have Flexor (yet).
I'm planning (and already taking) corrective actions for these two points, but in the meantime, I must apologize in advance if any of my proposals are out of track.
As a background my main instrument is guitar and most of my ideas are biased towards the use of Modular+Flexor with a guitar and guitar amp, and well, now that Dynatube is out there I think that approach makes more sense than ever.
Proposal #1: Modular with Flexor used as a super-flexible pedalboard.
There's lots of stomp boxes that would be fantastic to have in Modular environment.
I read in the Off Topic section that 3 Wah modules are planned. Wow, that's great!
All kind of stuff in that line will be highly appreciated.

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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:37 am
by gainman
Proposal #2: Transient Detector
The idea is to have a module that receives audio and is able to trigger a gate signal upon detection of a transient. The gate is closed when one of the following happens:
1) The input audio drops below a threshold.
2) A new transient is detected so the gate is closed and opened again for the new transient.
I would use this to trigger envelopes each time a string is plucked in my guitar or bass, and apply those envelopes to filters, pitch shifting or whatever.
I know that something similar can be done with the existing audio to gate modules, but being based on audio level only there are some limitations, at least for guitar:
* You need a high threshold if you want the gate to close so that it can be opened again with each new note.
* You need a low threshold if you want soft notes to trigger the gate.
(These two limit the dynamics of your playing vs how fast you can play)
* The decay of a guitar string has some oscillations (it does not always go down)that can make false gate triggering when level is around the threshold.
The above applies to the CWA modules. With the Flexor modules it seems to be somewhat different, but in the end I feel that the audio level based approach works better for pre-recorded material where you can carefully set the parameters at their best for that material, rather than for improvising in a guitar.
By the way, something similar to this proposal is used in the Rocktron Prophesy.
(See "Pluck Detector" feature in http://www.rocktron.com/products/prophesy.html )

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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:00 pm
by gainman
Proposal #3: Whammy pedal
The equivalent to digitech's ( http://www.digitech.com/products/whammy.htm )
Reading the description of Flexor's pitcher control, I would say that all the necessary ingredients are already in Flexor, so this proposal is more a question to check whether it is possible to emulate the whammy pedal with flexor.
Proposal #4: Intelligent Harmonizer
I'm probably oversimplifying the task, but I would say that the only element missing to have this is a module based on the existing pitcher control, receiving an external frequency signal (e.g. from Pitch2Cv), comparing that to a given musical scale and deriving the corresponding pitch change for the pitcher engine. E.g if the reference scale is C major, the target harmony is a third and the input frequency corresponds to D, then the pitch shift amount indicated to the pitch engine is 3 semitones.

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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:06 pm
by gainman
Proposal #5: Packaging options
For people like me, who wouldn't know how to use complex oscillators and synth-oriented modules, the possibility to buy a subset of the modules.
I think that's all!
As I said in my first post, sorry for the potentially out of track proposals...

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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:52 pm
by dawman
I would love to hear that guitar rig!!

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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:51 am
by gainman
...hmmm.... no much feedback on my long proposal list... maybe I overdid it.
Could be a candidate for Flexor 3 ?

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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:47 pm
by Lima
Well, I've not access to the scope pc now, but a transient detector could be done pretty easily right now (I mean with the available modules)using for example the envelope follower module and few others, I suppose.
The idea of making a subset of modules could be great only if the price of the whole pack will be very high IMHO. Anyway the nice thing of the modular is its flexibility and synth oriented modules could be used to make new effects or guitar oriented patches. I belive it is moslty related to the creativity of the patcher rather than the specificity of the module.

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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:31 pm
by Lima
Is it possible to have something like this? :
The 3 sliders should be "stepped" so finetuning of parameters wich requires small variations will be simpler.
Obviously there should be a scale for any amount...

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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:47 am
by gainman

> a transient detector could be done pretty easily right now (I mean with the available modules)using for example the envelope follower module and few others, I suppose.

That's what I thought ... until I tried to do it!
After more than a week trying, I ended up with 3 env followers with different attack and release values, used to generate gates, and then applying some gate logic to generate the final gate that controls the ADSR.
The result was ok for sources like e.g. a drum loop where the hits to detect have about the same level and duration. However, for guitar improvisation where some notes are longer than others, and there can be significant level changes, the results are not that good, since sometimes you miss the gate being triggerred, or the gate is triggered when it shouldn't.

> The idea of making a subset of modules could be great only if the price of the whole pack will be very high IMHO.

> > I have to agree with that.
> > Subsets become more interesting as the number of available modules grows.

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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:44 am
by hifiboom
some new high quality "analog modeled" filters with new characteristics are always welcome.
With a quality like the minimax filter...
that would be cool !
And I don`t know if this is already possible:
but I wished there would be an sample oscillator module that loads a WAV file and detects the loop info on that wave and plays this endlessly... from loop start to end
So we could build any oscillator characteristics on our own with a simple wav file that contains one raw osc information.
best regards....

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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:11 am
by Shroomz~>
Hifiboom, MCCYRANO built a modular sample player that can load 4 whole STS programs in modular = lots & lots of looped wav samples in keyboard spread or complexly split banks. It's a very powerfull device if you don't mind building STS programs with your wavs & you can also load several of them in modular.
I think you've already seen it >>
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... 16&start=0

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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:16 pm
by hifiboom

> On 2006-10-05 11:11, Shroomz wrote:
> Hifiboom, MCCYRANO built a modular sample player that can load 4 whole STS programs in modular = lots & lots of looped wav samples in keyboard spread or complexly split banks. It's a very powerfull device if you don't mind building STS programs with your wavs & you can also load several of them in modular.
> I think you've already seen it >>
> https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... 16&start=0

jeah I know this one.
But on the other hand I like the workflow with WAV files, you just drop them on the dedicated slot and then you are ready to go.
Th econverting WAV to STS programs doesn`t aplly to my thinking of easy usage.
thats all.
In JBs Pro-Wave its pretty well done...

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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:41 pm
by Shroomz~>
Seriously, I thought you'd say that

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Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:06 am
by djmicron

> The idea is to have a module that receives audio and is able to trigger a gate signal upon detection of a transient

the audio to trigger module is what you need to do it

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Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:07 am
by hifiboom
a module that adds overtones in that way:
http://home.arcor.de/soundspace2/vst/moog_vst.wav
http://home.arcor.de/soundspace2/vst/moog_scope.wav
It should have following features:
GAIN: volume of the overtones
FREQUENCY DIVISION: divider, to generate the freq of the overtones from the original WAVE
VARIATION: random parameter influence
FEEDBACK: how long do the overtones last, the decay
This will add warm analog sound to any oscillator....

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Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:53 am
by djmicron

> On 2006-10-06 07:07, hifiboom wrote:
> a module that adds overtones in that way:
> http://home.arcor.de/soundspace2/vst/moog_vst.wav
> http://home.arcor.de/soundspace2/vst/moog_scope.wav
> It should have following features:
> GAIN: volume of the overtones
> FREQUENCY DIVISION: divider, to generate the freq of the overtones from the original WAVE
> VARIATION: random parameter influence
> FEEDBACK: how long do the overtones last, the decay
> This will add warm analog sound to any oscillator....

the images are not enough to understand what the module should do, because we can see just the waveform, but to better understand we need the spectrum analysis too.
About audio examples, it is much better to listen to a long single note (before/after).
Regards

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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:22 am
by steffensen
I also wouldnt mind a flexor colored PEQ4.
This probly doesnt belong to this thread, but anyway..

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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:44 pm
by ReD_MuZe
some very good ideas in this thread keep them coming
besides, im pleased to say that t apears flexor 2 will have more than you can ask for...
unless your not trying hard enough
brace yourself for some surprises

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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:59 pm
by wayne
Bracing!

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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:52 am
by scary808

> On 2006-10-19 13:44, ReD_MuZe wrote:
> some very good ideas in this thread keep them coming
> besides, im pleased to say that t apears flexor 2 will have more than you can ask for...
> unless your not trying hard enough
> brace yourself for some surprises

Cannot wait!

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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:19 am
by gainman

> flexor 2 will have more than you can ask for...

That's a serious statement, since many of us have proven a great ability to ask for things.

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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:13 pm
by Lima
I'm imploding for curiosity... when we can have a preview?!?!?!?

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Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:06 am
by dawman
I would love to see emulations of all analog synths and presets for those of us who have run out of time to program everyday. I find that modular has such a precise and accurate emulation of filters and tape echos, etc. Basically tons of patches with presets for dissection and anyalzation. This is the best way for me to learn. I simply find what I like, and reverse engineer it according to my taste.

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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:18 am
by bcslaam
Great work Red_Muze. I havent yet bought Flexor but am now interested in v2. Will it include all past modules from 1, 1.5?
Who patented modelling? If you make up your own algorythms and call it something a bit different, who will stop you? But there are a lot of modelling devices out there besides Yamaha. What about Logic's Sculpture, 6 String, Synful Orchestra, Duendo, UAD-1.
I too wish for modelled osc if at all possible.
And for more analog modelled filters and distortions
The intelligent harmoniser/pitch quantiser is a great idea
All the other complicated ones look great too. But I chime in with scope4live in that more presets and devices for those not so technically minded would be nice.
One last wish...the CW shop sucks. It's always down. I wish we could just buy direct from you.

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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:11 am
by decimator
I would like a new NBL Saw 2 PWM !!!!
In the current one when PW is in neutral position you've got a perfect square up and down alternatively, fully left you've got a big rectangle up, fully right you've got a big rectangle down so both direction give the same result.
So I would like the PW to be unipolar.
At the lowest value you would have thin rectangle up ( spike of some samples ) then long baseline then thin rectangle down.
At max value, you would have what you have currently with the neutral PW position ( fullest square as possible )
An another idea for what's it's worth would be to have detachable bi-modules : one for wires ins, one for wires outs so the GUI would be less cluttered.
Each subunit would be numbered In 1 - Out 1 , In 2 - Out 2 etc ... to differentiate.
Mainly for non midi / gate signals.

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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:04 pm
by hifiboom
hopefully there will be tools to make sounds like this!
I found this to be extremly nice....and I couldn`t create something similar on any synth I had my hands on.... I`m only interested in that nice "wobbering" synth sound that cut off frequency is modulated...
If you carefully listen you`ll also notice some crushing distortion at the top range ( higher frequencies)
Although richen with something like phase/flanger -> delay -> reverb
I think this synth sound on its own (dry) is awesome, rich and has this "air" at the top range.......
what a great sound....
I hope to find some aggressive filters and extrmely richa and smooth distortions in Flexor II....
best regards

Attachments

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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:16 pm
by hubird
call that HiFi-boom
good editing!

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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:38 am
by hifiboom

> hubird wrote:call that HiFi-boom
> good editing!

not my editing at all.

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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:54 pm
by scary808
I'm going to cleanse this diseased planet!

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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:14 pm
by irrelevance
How about having note sequencers that can have selectable steps like 16, 32, 48, 64? Or if easier, have all these available.
Wouid also be good if note sequencers allowed a select between parallel input -- to output and own frequency output. If that makes sense.

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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:40 pm
by irrelevance
Am I the only one who craves more sequencing flexibility then?

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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:45 pm
by astroman
if I consider what 'sequencing' flexibility the 30 Euros for EnergyXT bought me, I don't even dare to bother Adern in that direction...
in loop sequencing it's Devine Machine
sequencing isn't Scope's strongest aspect, imho, possibly a consequence of the multi-platform GUI, but then... the Adern sound is unmatched, I just fill the control gaps via midi
cheers, Tom

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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:57 pm
by irrelevance
Come on Tom!! I wasn't sugesting a fully fledged sequencer solution (not this time at least). Just helpful expansion ideas on some already great products

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Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:44 am
by astroman
so didn't I ....
I meant just a handfull of midi notes and how I can shift, duplicate, transpose, select a subset etc while the thing loops through a few bars
you got to face what Scope is about - any All-In-One approach is bound to fail
it's ridiculuous to 'defend' a territory that's not even one's own, so to say... (though the latter seems to happen more often than appreciated... beyond the musical scope of this world... ouch)
anyway, Scope has good tools on board to load dsp code to chips and route a signal in the digital domain - it has barely nothing to offer for the GUI.
There is an 'interpreter' which is playing back movies when you move a virtual fader - and you can generate a significant system load with lots of that stuff running.
that's a natural matter of fact - it's the price you pay when you don't have to deal (as a developer) with a user interface on the level of the C++ buffer, structure, object, etc .
I'd rather like to see it differently, but there are limits with not even a chance to be overcome (imho), so I'd like to see them focus on what they can do best - and they ARE really good in that
cheers, Tom

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Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:00 am
by irrelevance
Well your arguement isn't wasted on me Tom but what I'm suggesting isn't so far from what is already offered.
Sequencers with more steps will equal more dsp and mabye larger screen space, and regarding having choice over input functionality, well this seems like a nice addition. I understand there may be a problem with non standard module sizes so mabye page viewing ie different views within the same module like Fra77z's DX module could be the awnser.

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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:32 pm
by ReD_MuZe
i have just compiled a todo list out of your suggestions thank you very much for some great ideas.
flexor 2 tho has far beyond the requests here.
requests i will not follow :
1) combining several modules together
2) wraping creamware modules as is
3) devices that aleady exist exactly as i would do them
peace to all!

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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:25 pm
by Shroomz~>
Ouch that hurt.

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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:29 pm
by hifiboom
may I add one thing....
If you look into the manual of the Nord G2, you`ll recognize that the basic oscialltors are much more flexible....
There is a DualSaw and also a some ShapeOscillators....
There are also some shapeLFOs which may be very useful...

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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:40 pm
by Shroomz~>
Looking on the bright side No.1 gives me some scope so to speak.