## Lexicon PCM41 emulation

Device/Module Wishlist

Original topic on PlanetZ: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=13593

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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:47 pm
by nprime
FWIW, I would love a complete emulation of one of my most used toys, and one of my oldest possessions, the Lexicon PCM41 Digital Delay line.
That's right, I want a mono single delay line.
BUT, it must have the "invert feedback" and "invert delay" switches, and it must have the modulation section with the "square wave" to "envelope" to "sine wave" continuous control, and the all important "depth" and "speed" controls.
It would be amusing if it had the set delay time lights and fixed times, but I think that is one place where I would bow to modern convention and ask for a set-able delay time, in both milliseconds and BPM with divisions (also MIDI sync?). hey! it would be kinda cool to use the space where the LED's are for BPM divisions instead of the delay time. The LED's could be labelled whole note, 1/4 note, 1/2 note, 1/8T, ETC!
The "speed" control shold also be BPM sync-able and set-able.
Also important is the way that the effected signal is rolled off pretty steeply above 8Khz, and above 5KHz in "times two" mode. I think this is critical to acheiving the correct feel of this DDL. This could be switch-able, or I suppose it could be acheived with a Scope Lowpass tool.
I would request longer delay times than the original had though, it's nice to be able to go out to 2000 ms.
There's something about this DDL that keeps me coming back to it again and again. It's just so musically useful.
I hope one of you programming geniuses can do it!
R

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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:41 pm
by nprime
http://www.lexiconpro.com/kbase/answer.asp?qid=3275
This link describes the various functions quite well.
R

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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:51 pm
by bbrian
Do you ever use native VST plugins? PSP has the Lexicon PSP42 which is a pretty exact emulation of the PCM41 delay. They also have a hot-rodded expanded stereo version called the PSP84 which also has built in filtering, spring and plate reverb, and a few other things, minus the looping feature of the PCM41. Check them out @ http://www.pspaudioware.com

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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:37 pm
by nprime
sometimes you would think that I live in a cave...
I have always been a Cakewalk/Sonar user and up until very recently I couldn't use VST plugs so I have paid absolutely no attention to them.
Thanks for the tip!
R

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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:51 pm
by nprime
Well, I can't recall the last time one of my wishes was granted so expediently.
They have designed exactly what I requested.
Now I just have to justify putting something on my credit card that I cannot possibly really afford! ...how long can a man survive on noodles and beans? And this right as I was trying to decide if I should buy that reverb plug-in everyone's raving about. Damn!
Decisions!
tthank yyou bbrian!

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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:26 am
by blazesboylan

> On 2004-08-23 20:51, nprime wrote:
> how long can a man survive on noodles and beans?

I'll let you know when I finally buy the farm! (Also with my credit card, of course.)

> And this right as I was trying to decide if I should buy that reverb plug-in everyone's raving about. Damn!

The way I see it you should buy the P-100 and send a copy to me. One of these days STW might actually process my order...
Seriously, though, a few considerations:

1. Plugins *never* provide the colour of the devices they emulate. Lexicons especially are beautifully rich. I used to have a Super Prime Time (Model 97) and I hated that freakin' knob-twisting nightmare, but man it sounded good.
2. You've already got the real McCoy.
3. Support the small guy!

$0.02.
Cheers + good luck with your decision Rod!
Johann

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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:38 am
by bbrian

> On 2004-08-24 01:26, blazesboylan wrote:
> Seriously, though, a few considerations:
> 1. Plugins *never* provide the colour of the devices they emulate. Lexicons especially are beautifully rich. I used to have a Super Prime Time (Model 97) and I hated that freakin' knob-twisting nightmare, but man it sounded good.
> 2. You've already got the real McCoy.
> 3. Support the small guy!
> $0.02.
> Cheers + good luck with your decision Rod!
> Johann

I really wouldn't make such a blanket statement about plugins never sounding as good or providing the same color. Sounds like you have never tried the UAD-1 card and plugins?? It's scary how much they sound like hardware (1176LN, LA-2A, and Pultec EQ especially). And yes the PSP42 DOES sound like the Lexi 41 delay, complete with digital grunginess, and bandlimited freq response. It also has a built-in tape saturation algorithm at the input stage so you can overload the input with some nice distortion....
Still if I owned a PCM41 I probably wouldn't want the plugin as much. Automation, multiple instances are a plus though.

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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:27 am
by blazesboylan

> On 2004-08-24 01:38, bbrian wrote:
> I really wouldn't make such a blanket statement about plugins never sounding as good or providing the same color. Sounds like you have never tried the UAD-1 card and plugins??

You're right, but I'm afraid I won't believe you until I hear it for myself!
Seriously though, you are right that I spouted a sort of plugin stereotype. And in any case, just because many of the "vintage" plugins don't sound the same as the devices they emulate, doesn't mean they don't sound as good or even better... So point taken, Bbrian.
But I really would like to hear an A/B! For example, UAD-1 vs outboard LA-2A. I think it would be quite interesting.
Other reasons to use plugins over outboard gear: no cables, automation, settings recall, no maintenance, ...
Cheers,
Johann

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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:47 am
by bbrian
I wish I could provide such A/B tests, but those hardware pieces are WAY beyond my budget! Hope you didn't take my response as offensive! In the magazine "TapeOP" several pro engineers in a studio environment did blind tests between hardware Urei 1176s and the UA plugins. 5 out of 5 actually preferred the sound of the plugins! I'm sure each hardware unit varies in sound due to age, maintainance, condition, etc., but so many people who own/have access to the hardware say they are nearly identicle. Also since buying a UAD-1, I have found it very very easy to match the sound of vocals and drums on professionally engineered records. 1176 can squash the crap out of stuff! Anything from fat snare sounds to in-your-face vocals to crunchy distorted drum room pumping a la Led Zeppelin. By now this is off topic...but I would recommend this card to anyone! They just released a cut down (only cut down the included plugin count) version for about $399, which is very much worth the awesome sounds it will give you. I have never really seen any native plugins that can compare to these emulations, and only a few on Scope (like the P100, Celmos Echoreq) sound as close to the real thing.

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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:29 am
by nprime
Sooner or later my hardware device will fail, and it sure would be nice to have something close to go to...
I have to agree with the underdog support though.
If I buy the plug-in I promise to post a blow by blow review.
R
...now where's that can opener?

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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:07 am
by blazesboylan

> Hope you didn't take my response as offensive!

Of course not! I love a good-natured spar, especially when I learn something.

> In the magazine "TapeOP"... engineers... preferred the sound of the plugins!

Time to subscribe. It's been at least a year since I found Tape Op in the newsstand.
It costs $40 + change up here in Ultima Thule. Worth it though.
Oh and BBrian, I PMed you about the A / B.

> ...now where's that can opener?

I have some "vintage beans" for sale if you'd like, Rod!
Johann

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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:26 am
by astroman

> On 2004-08-24 01:38, bbrian wrote:
> ...It's scary how much they sound like hardware (1176LN, LA-2A, and Pultec EQ especially)...

afaik the makers of the UAD card are a follow up firm of UA, so they have access to all details of the hardware units and the algotrithms applied.
So it's 'just' a well done job - which doesn't reduce their merits, though
cheers, Tom